Any company store where you can bring your 90lb pointer in with you to shop, and walk out with a scope and rings (after the dog gets a cookie) gets my business. Repeatedly.
Any company store where you can bring your 90lb pointer in with you to shop, and walk out with a scope and rings (after the dog gets a cookie) gets my business. Repeatedly.
Working diligently to enlarge my group size.
This is really cool but I’d be more interested in lighter weight at the cost of top end mag. Everything adds up. An M4 with SOCOM profile barrel, laser, light, and a 21oz optic is kind of a pig.
A 6" 1-5x daylight bright with an acog style mount would be sexy...Originally Posted by Super77
And that's kind of what I'm coming back around to, an ACOG.
I fully admit that my experience with the latest and greatest LPVOs is very limited. I've played around with the two Nightforce 1-8s and the Vortex 1-6 but haven't had a chance to shoot with them. I've used an ELCAN SpectreDR and S&B Short Dot 1-4 on a couple deployments. I understand the reasoning behind LPVOs but I'm not sure they worked better than an LED ACOG+offset RDS would have.
Weight: I found the ELCAN and S&B both to be noticeably heavy to the point of affecting weapons handling. Most of my time carrying a weapon was spent in rural/farm areas walking and scanning, not CQB. Of the time spent looking through a magnified optic, 95% was simply to trying to look for threats in points of interest, look for weapons on people some distance away, looking into in darkened windows and stuff like that. Basically mounting the weapon to look through the scope for bad guys anywhere from 200-800m away. Climbing over walls, scrambling up hills and through fields, jumping over irrigation ditches, you start to notice a weapon that weighs a lot and wants to fall sideways because it's top heavy. Also a heavier weapon is slower to mount and transition.
Optics/Reticle: In the dismounted patrol setting FOV felt more important than magnification power and I was usually on either 1x or 4x. I didn't spend a lot of time thinking "hmmm, lets see if 2.5x is a little better here." Maybe I'm using it wrong. WRT reticle, MIL vs BDC: A lot of people would advocate using a mil reticle with like an accuracy first rough hold to get decent hits quickly. To that I'd argue the MIL reticle is accomplishing the same thing as a BDC reticle: sacrifice a little precision for speed.
Speed: Time to put rounds on target is a big factor. An ACOG is one of the fastest magnified optics. FOV is generally good and they have reasonably precise BDC reticles. Find... range... hold... fire... search. An offset 1X RDS is also very fast and you don't have to dick around with a ring to switch between mag settings. This is one thing I think Nightforce gets right with magnification adjusted by turning the entire eyepiece.
An LED ACOG TA-110 with an offset RDS has a few advantages. There's a slight weight advantage. You get a very rugged 3.5X with a good reticle and FOV and a decent eye box. You "only" get 3.5X top end but in my experience that's enough for an M4. There may be times when more mag is better but everything is a tradeoff. Admittedly the offset RDS has its pros and cons. On one hand you have two completely discreet sights and it's always good to have redundancy. You also get to switch from 1X to 3.5X by just moving your head or tilting the weapon. The downside is that you generally get a weird shooting position on 1X and if you're running an offset RDS on the right things get awkward when you have to shoot off the left of a barrier.
How did you measure this, compared to which other scopes?
that's kind of my whole point.
I'm not buying a $2500 optic for a toy gun.
You could always look for a used one. I’m obviously not an engineer but it seems to me if there was a way to get a reliable, robust, legit 1x LPV with true daytime bright illumination at a much lower price point companies would be doing so. The Razor HD gets there but is much heavier than your desired 16oz.
Have you looked at the Trijicon Accupower line? The skipped the 1-6 and only offer 1-4 (16.2oz) and 1-8 (25oz). I don’t know if they are true daytime bright though.
Well, that was my whole original point. I don’t “need” a 1-x optic. Last time I shot the Broward matches I was winning with an iron-sight gun that cost less than the optics most of the other guys were using to lose to me. Not a highly competitive field, to be sure, but it’s the pond I lived in.
But, if someone ever comes up with a sub-16oz 1-6 that’s under $1k I’d probably be a player.
So I hold out hope that while the scope makers chase the derp/larp/MOAR/arrow(vs Indian) market with ever increasing magnification because:sniper, they’ll fuck around and make what I want simply because they have the spare parts sitting around
Last edited by rob_s; 01-05-2020 at 11:14 AM.
I have an Accupower 1-4x and it is not daylight bright. That is the main reason an Aimpoint stays on my patrol rifle. Unfortunately, the Accupower 1-4x is the only worthwhile approved LPVO option.
Is the Steiner P4Xi 1-4X on the list? It's absolutely daylight bright under any circumstances, including full bright sun over a white, snowy landscape.
It's like having a variable magnification Aimpoint. Mine replaced an Aimpoint PRO and a Accupower 1-4X (the one with the red segmented circle)
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