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Thread: sandstorms and RMR's

  1. #1
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    sandstorms and RMR's

    I was listening to the Ben Stoeger podcast "Practical Shooting After Dark, Episode 82" and he and one of his guests were discussing how their pistol mounted open emitter red dot sight (SRO I believe) was basically unusable due to dust/silt/sand on the emitter. the only way to prevent it was to cover or bag the dot topped pistol.
    I found that particular failure/trouble vector especially interesting considering that in the spring and fall I live in dust storm central.
    Comments? Experience?

    I'm going to go back and listen again because I was driving at the time and only halfway paying attention to the discussion.
    The sand issue discussion starts at around 9:50 .
    Last edited by JodyH; 01-02-2020 at 06:55 PM.
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  2. #2
    I think it’s less of an issue for CCW folks and plain clothes LE than it is for uniformed LE and MIL. If you have a cover garment over the gun, it will do a pretty good job keeping the grime off the optic. While I was in Afghanistan, I often covered my M9 with my uniform blouse on base while most folks didn’t. We had some intense dust storms and I noticed that my pistol remained a lot cleaner than those of soldiers who kept them exposed to the elements on base. For uniformed LE like Border Patrol, for example, that’s a serious concern because a lot of those guys in the same areas you’re referencing. Same with our MIL folks. They’re mostly in very sandy areas nowadays. This is why closed emitter optics are the ideal and why many people believe the ACRO is the first duty grade pistol RDS.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    The only time I open carry is when I'm either backcountry hiking or off road riding my dual sport motorcycle... in the middle of the desert southwest.
    I found it an interesting possible failure point that I personally had not given a lot of consideration.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  4. #4
    An open emitter pistol red dot is like a big ash tray, when it comes to collecting man made and God’s debris. Cover it up with clothing, or for outside carry, a Safariland holster with a red dot hood. If you prefer a belt and suspenders, use an Acro.

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    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  5. #5
    Solid advice from @GJM. I am generally committed to the ACRO, although the RMR2 is the other viable choice, mainly due to battery life. Both are durable and reliable from everything I’ve experienced and read.
    If committed to an RMR, follow the above advice. Otherwise, it’s an ACRO.
    Your posts lead me to believe you are a dedicated practitioner, so if dust/debris an issue, I would go with an ACRO, and live with its demands(battery monitoring and manual adjustment).
    Dust, debris, mud, etc. generally solved with a wipe of lens.

  6. #6
    Murder Machine, Harmless Fuzzball TCinVA's Avatar
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    Friend of mine shooting a match in cold weather from an open rig drew his pistol on a one handed section of a stage, exhaled as part of his "shoot good, dumbass" mental routine and in so doing fogged both the glass of the optic and the lens of the emitter to the point that he had no more aiming reference.

    Concealment will certainly help protect the gun against debris and environmental conditions...but the vulnerability of the open emitter is why I waited for the ACRO to jump into dots on pistols.

    It's certainly has issues of its own, but becoming unusable due to dust, debris, (gravel, in my case) or because you literally breathed on it aren't among them.

    That's why I think the ACRO will become more heavily adopted by agencies in the near future than the RMR.
    Last edited by TCinVA; 01-03-2020 at 09:12 AM.
    3/15/2016

  7. #7
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Summer 2020 I'll be taking a month or so long almost all off-road motorcycle adventure (KTM 990ADV) along the Continental Divide trail.
    I'm still debating between a 19X and a 19X/508T.
    This sand thing has me leaning towards irons because early summer on the high deserts of north central NM and Wyoming on a motorcycle is either going to be ridiculously dusty or ridiculously nasty mud.
    Whether it's open carried, under a T-shirt or under a Gore-Tex jacket will be entirely weather dependent (and subject to exposure from the wind while riding).
    I'll have to add this to my already huge list of things to evaluate and test over the next 5-6 months prior to setting off into the wild.
    Last edited by JodyH; 01-03-2020 at 10:08 AM.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  8. #8
    My open emitter optic (DPP) was rained out of commission due to shit on emitter within 2 hours of Ben's class in October. I thought this was because of optic's lens getting wet and dirty first, and part of it was that. However, it only returned to a fully functional state when I cleaned the emitter with Q tip and hair dryer later that night. I would only consider closed emitter optics for non-gaming open carry, and I remounted my T-1 on one of my Glocks when I got back.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  9. #9
    Jody, on a trip like you describe, I would carry an extra slide for your Glock with iron sights.

    Optics have been fogging and getting fouled for years, and while a closed emitter is better, you could still end up with an obscured sighting system if you breathed on the Acro wrong. Harder to clear with an open emitter for sure, but blowing on an open emitter has cleared snow when I fell into deep snow with a RMR. That is a reason you should be able to shoot your pistol with just index, and why I ordered a TLR-8G, to have a different color, alternate sighting system as an option. Tony at JM made me a George for an optics equipped Glock with a TLR-8.

    I remember discussing rain on the RMR, one very rainy summer in Alaska five years or so ago, and being told I was basically crazy for suggesting it was a problem.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Jody, on a trip like you describe, I would carry an extra slide for your Glock with iron sights.
    A Torx bit, screws and a plate to cover the RMR cut would be more size efficient and serve the same purpose (I have BUIS on my RMR cut slide).
    If I have an extra 1"x1"x7" space available in my spare parts bag it'll have a spare fuel pump or another couple of CO2 tire inflator cartridges instead of a pistol slide.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

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