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Thread: Glock 44 and improving time from concealed draw to first shot

  1. #21
    Hokey / Ancient JAD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMWINCLE View Post
    Thanks for your thoughts.

    Watching analysis of this shooting, folks are saying it illustrates why you need a < 2 second draw to first shot. They never specify target size or distance with that though, but I feel I have lots of work to do.

    Last year, I could only get to the range about once a month. I shoot a variation of Gila Hayes's 5x5 Drill using a 3x4 label from concealment first thing on range days. My last 10 cold runs mean to first shot is 2.61 seconds with .20 STDEV. I shoot it 5 times. After a few runs, it gets closer to 2 seconds, but I'm tracking my cold, first run separately and focusing on that for this problem.

    What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?
    White Settlement was a /moving/ grape shot at 12 yards. If I'm trying to solve that problem, I am going to work a 2x2 at 12. The acceptable time for that is faster than yesterday.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by DMWINCLE View Post
    What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?
    I ran drills at 7 yards a couple of days ago from concealment as well as duty belt since I have to work on both aspects.

    I was averaging 1.6 from concealment (IWB at the 4 o'clock with a light jacket on) using a new pistol to me (duty issued G45). Fastest was 1.46.

    From the hooded ALS duty rig I was 1.20 with the fastest at 1.08.

    I used to be much slower with both methods of carry and I want to be much faster with both. Not sure how much more I can shave off but I still run the drills hoping to see improvement. I found that dry practice on both concealed and duty were the most beneficial to me. My shot timer won't detect dry practice but my app on my phone will....so long as the room is quiet and the phone is placed near where the muzzle lands on the draw.

    I try to practice both ways dry on a daily basis. I lean towards more reps on the duty rig since both the holster and the gun are fairly new to me.

    The G44 interests me but for now, I find more benefit from the ammo that I can purchase with the funds. Plus, I want to see how the range reports are on the new Glock .22lr. before I invest in one. Particularly the 25 yard accuracy that the gun has.

    Regards.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful.
    Really? I look at it as a dry fire, except with at the range and with tiny holes serving as diagostics.

    To the OP: main problem that I see with 22LR is that it doesn't induce the same tension. Undue physical and mental tension is what kills speed, and accuracy for that matter. Main criticism of dry fire, by those who do it a lot, is not that you cant generate same pressure on the gun as in live, but that the gun doesn't induce all of the reactions intrinsic to live fire in you. Same goes for 22LR. As I just said above, 22LR is barely anything over dry fire, but it does help to keep you honest.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwt16 View Post
    I ran drills at 7 yards a couple of days ago from concealment as well as duty belt since I have to work on both aspects.

    I was averaging 1.6 from concealment (IWB at the 4 o'clock with a light jacket on) using a new pistol to me (duty issued G45). Fastest was 1.46.

    From the hooded ALS duty rig I was 1.20 with the fastest at 1.08.

    I used to be much slower with both methods of carry and I want to be much faster with both. Not sure how much more I can shave off but I still run the drills hoping to see improvement. I found that dry practice on both concealed and duty were the most beneficial to me. My shot timer won't detect dry practice but my app on my phone will....so long as the room is quiet and the phone is placed near where the muzzle lands on the draw.

    I try to practice both ways dry on a daily basis. I lean towards more reps on the duty rig since both the holster and the gun are fairly new to me.

    The G44 interests me but for now, I find more benefit from the ammo that I can purchase with the funds. Plus, I want to see how the range reports are on the new Glock .22lr. before I invest in one. Particularly the 25 yard accuracy that the gun has.

    Regards.
    Thanks.

    Did you see much difference between dry and live times?

    My dry time mean is 1.79 seconds so cold live fire time is ~.8 second worse.

    I wonder if I'm getting the "yips" on the first run as my times gets closer to 2 on subsequent runs. Maybe my dry practice sucks. Or Both.
    Last edited by SiriusBlunder; 01-02-2020 at 09:11 AM.

  5. #25
    Reasonable comment, @YVK; the rim fire gives one a diagnostic tool for shooting one shot. A G44 similar to a G19 is a good, but not perfect, tool.
    And before I get to the range with a centerfire, I in no way want to discourage dry firing. Draws, to include a support hand draw, sight acquisition (dot especially), trigger press, stoppage reduction, reloads, etc., all benefit.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter miller_man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.
    Totally disagree here. For multiple shots, yes not really useful. 1 shot? Even 1 shot per target - very useful. I will agree or admit first - dry fire is best.

    For example, Go see my training journal, right now I am working a good bit on draws to 1st shot on head box @20yds (with a dot). There is A TON of things that go into getting it right - and recoil after the shot is pretty insignificant. The follow through after the shot is, but the recoil impulse matters little. I have gained a ton of information on the process of the draw - staying relaxed, especially in shoulders, getting dot smoothly on the target and holding dot pretty steady on the head box. My first biggest lesson was learning that the dot couldn't be moving across the head box for me to reliably land a hit (maybe other folks, but not me). Also, the trigger work - I tried no prep, slow press and now I am finding most success with prepping 90% of the trigger while getting dot settled on head box and continue very controlled steady press of last 10% to break the shot.

    I've gotten to work on this one thing about 60-70% more than I would have been able to using 22lr instead of 9mm. Once I get to running this with about 90% success with the 22, I will start running more with 9mm. I started working on it with 9mm but found quickly I was making lots of mistakes. I did and can run in dry practice all day but until I can verify in live fire, I won't know. No sense IMO in wasting my more valuable 9mm ammo on the drill until I can do it with the 22.

    Also, you have transitions - all you need to do to work on transitions is call the first shot good and get eyes and gun to next target as fast as possible. Recoil doesn't really matter.
    The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

    Humbly improving with CZ's.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by miller_man View Post
    Totally disagree here.
    I'm OK with that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by DMWINCLE View Post
    Thanks.

    Did you see much difference between dry and live times?

    My dry time mean is 1.79 seconds so cold live fire time is ~.8 second worse.

    I wonder if I'm getting the "yips" on the first run as my times gets closer to 2 on subsequent runs. Maybe my dry practice sucks. Or Both.
    Oh yeah, I typically shave .2 off when running the drills dry in the living room. I'm on lunch now and just ran some from the duty holster. My fastest was .89 and that is when everything is going my way. I haven't ran a sub one second one yet in live fire. I suspect that I will sometime in the future but for now, I can't get one off that quick, on target....with ammo in the gun.

    I had an on duty shooting last year and it was from my patrol car's front seat. I had done (and still do) quite a bit of dry draw practice while seated in that thing and it paid off big time for me. When watching it back on body and dash cam footage during the follow up process and shooting review board, I took note of the time to first shot as best I could. I knew when it was live the draw stroke seemed very fast to me and I confirmed it when watching the footage later. It was fast.....and I credit that to dry drawing over and over and over again during down times during shift.

    A .22 training gun probably wouldn't have made that much difference for me. For you it may. Either way the price point of the g44 isn't going to break my bank....but I have a set amount of cash I can spend yearly and for now, it's going to go to 9mm and .45 auto. Not another gun.

    Regards.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by lwt16 View Post

    When watching it back on body and dash cam footage during the follow up process and shooting review board, I took note of the time to first shot as best I could. I knew when it was live the draw stroke seemed very fast to me and I confirmed it when watching the footage later. It was fast.....and I credit that to dry drawing over and over and over again during down times during shift.
    Thanks for your service. Glad your shooting went so well.

    I've been going through the advice in this thread. I'm going to record myself in both dry and live practice and see if I can notice what I'm doing differently to account for the major increase in time.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMWINCLE View Post
    Thanks for your service. Glad your shooting went so well.

    I've been going through the advice in this thread. I'm going to record myself in both dry and live practice and see if I can notice what I'm doing differently to account for the major increase in time.
    Right from that thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ull=1#post3139

    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    I would urge caution working on any 1-shot draw drills. Obtaining great speed is possible with a bad grip and no ability to control or follow through.
    And he was talking about firing one full power centerfire shot. Using a rimfire just makes it worse.

    I know, I couldn't help myself.....

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