Glock 44 and improving time from concealed draw to first shot

[Alpha Sierra]

Good point about the weight. Looks like a ~14 oz difference G19/G44 based on Glock's spec.

If I go this route, I would have to see if any the weighted grip plugs will fit and if there in one heavy enough to make up that difference. If not, I bet there's one on it's way.

Never thought about weight with an unloaded G19/G17 or Sirt (~21 oz) when dry practicing, though. Maybe I should.

The weight difference between an empty pistol and one full of ammo doesn't cause any issues going from dry practice to live fire.

I doubt the weight difference between a loaded Glock 19 and a loaded rimfire clone would be a problem either unless there's some physical infirmity going on.

The value of correct dry fire practice has been validated by some of the best handgun shooters, bar none, in the world. The fact that some still find ways to question its value just makes me laugh.

[JAD]

When I am trying to develop my ability to handle something like the White Settlement problem, I am not interested in draw speed in se. I am interested in my ability to hit a high accountability target as quickly as possible from the holster. Having a good clean mechanical draw that I’ve developed in dry fire is a step, having a clean trigger press developed in dry fire is a step, and follow through for a second shot is a step. I find that live fire is the best way to put those three things together, and I prefer to do it with my carry pistol. I would spend the G44 money on ammo.

[SiriusBlunder]

The weight difference between an empty pistol and one full of ammo doesn't cause any issues going from dry practice to live fire.

I doubt the weight difference between a loaded Glock 19 and a loaded rimfire clone would be a problem either unless there's some physical infirmity going on.

The value of correct dry fire practice has been validated by some of the best handgun shooters, bar none, in the world. The fact that some still find ways to question its value just makes me laugh.

I'm not questioning the value of dry practice and do a lot more of it than live. I'm not going to stop. I thought that was clear in the other posts.

I now have time to go to the club 5 times a week and was interested in the pros/cons of using an "identical" .22LR for this drill.

Are you saying that dry practicing this drill 5 times a week is better than live practice with an "identical" .22LR?

[Alpha Sierra]

Are you saying that dry practicing this drill 5 times a week is better than live practice with an "identical" .22LR?

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.

[SiriusBlunder]

I'm saying that live fire practice with a rimfire is not useful. Recoil, and your reaction to it, is what live fire brings to the party in order to validate what you did in dry fire.

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill. (Dry practice doesn't have any recoil either so does nothing for training recoil management).

ToddG's blog post covers which drills a .22LR trainer are good for so I wish I would have found that before posting.

There are pros/cons to this specific drill so I'm considering those, too.

[Alpha Sierra]

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill. (Dry practice doesn't have any recoil either so does nothing for training recoil management).

OK, I give up.

[SiriusBlunder]

When I am trying to develop my ability to handle something like the White Settlement problem, I am not interested in draw speed in se. I am interested in my ability to hit a high accountability target as quickly as possible from the holster. Having a good clean mechanical draw that I’ve developed in dry fire is a step, having a clean trigger press developed in dry fire is a step, and follow through for a second shot is a step. I find that live fire is the best way to put those three things together, and I prefer to do it with my carry pistol. I would spend the G44 money on ammo.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Watching analysis of this shooting, folks are saying it illustrates why you need a < 2 second draw to first shot. They never specify target size or distance with that though, but I feel I have lots of work to do.

Last year, I could only get to the range about once a month. I shoot a variation of Gila Hayes's 5x5 Drill using a 3x4 label from concealment first thing on range days. My last 10 cold runs mean to first shot is 2.61 seconds with .20 STDEV. I shoot it 5 times. After a few runs, it gets closer to 2 seconds, but I'm tracking my cold, first run separately and focusing on that for this problem.

What is an acceptable time to draw to a 3x4 target at 5 yards from concealment?

[1Rangemaster]

In reply to your immediate question, I would opine a draw to a hit in your scenario to be 2seconds or less. But please recall we have other issues here such as recognition of the threat, background, etc. I am training around several standards, to include a hit from the ready to a steel silhouette at 50 yards in 3 seconds. At 3 yards, less than 2 secs., and so on. I also regularly do a “cold drill”; no AM dryfire, no warmup, first thing upon range arrival.
I respected TLG, as he was thoughtful in his writing. I’ll have a G44 as soon as I can. Will I use it for “practical” practice?
You bet; single draws to a hit, there’s a rim fire 5 yard Roundup, etc. No, it doesn’t take the place of centerfire for recoil control, zero verification, etc. But a rim fire is fun, too, and can be used with “less dedicated” personnel.
Any reasonable activity which gets one on the range to work with a similar trigger is a net positive, IMO.
And a thought occurred to me this AM as I prepared for work: in the TX church thread, I commented I hoped I could meet evil as well as Mr. Wilson did. I’m thinking to modify that, and it’s a subtle but I believe important distinction.
I will meet the evil, and overcome it.
Best wishes for your shooting

[JRV]

Finding efficiencies in the draw stroke is a dryfire process. If you don’t separate out the marksmanship process, you’ll never give yourself enough time or enough focused reps to clean up the clear-cover-acquire-grip-clear-holster-join-hands process.

You wouldn’t prepare for a boxing match by only boxing. Sometimes you have to drill reps on a bag, sometimes you lift, sometimes you run or drill footwork, sometimes you do yoga, and sometimes you spar.

[JAD]

I agree for multi-string drills. This drill is not a multi-shot drill.

Follow through matters, SO MUCH. Accountability matters, and your ability to hit a small target with a .22 is not super helpful. Live fire is demonstration and diagnosis, and will be much more fruitful with service ammo.