Our big, fun Iraq discussion thread

[RJ]

Interesting perspective:

https://www.breitbart.com/middle-eas...-with-america/

"Since 1998, the Quds Force was led by Major General Qassem Soleimani, 62. As most people were recovering from the 2020 new year celebration, Soleimani’s term came to an abrupt end. On January 3rd, he was targeted and killed in a U.S. airstrike at Baghdad airport where he was busy planning attacks on U.S. diplomats and military forces, the Pentagon confirmed.

Unsurprisingly, media snowflakes and congressional Democrats were quick to criticize President Donald Trump for allegedly bringing us to the “brink of an illegal war.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said, “we cannot put the lives of American service members, diplomats, and others further at risk by engaging in provocative and disproportionate actions.”

Such critics need to be awoken to reality: Tehran has been at war with us for 40 years; we have just refused to fight back."

Lt. Colonel James G. Zumwalt, USMC (Ret.), is a retired Marine infantry officer who served in the Vietnam war, the U.S. invasion of Panama and the first Gulf war. He is the author of “Bare Feet, Iron Will–Stories from the Other Side of Vietnam’s Battlefields,” “Living the Juche Lie: North Korea’s Kim Dynasty” and “Doomsday: Iran–The Clock is Ticking.” He frequently writes on foreign policy and defense issues.

[pooty]

The primary difference is the WW II losers were stable countries who were well and truly tired of war after years of bleeding, and Iran and Iraq were not and are not. It is impossible to do American-style nation building unless the people are aligned with the idea of being one nation and want to be a nation more than wanting to kill someone/something else.

Iraqis don't want to be one people since they aren't one people, it's three distinct ethnic groups who don't like each other for reasons that go back centuries. Forcing them to live together in a democracy was never going to work. I still think that we could have done alright with nation building if we'd have split them into three different nations... and we should have taken the gas too haha

edit: also we should have made it against the law for them to marry and have kids with their own cousins.

[blues]

edit: also we should have made it against the law for them to marry and have kids with their own cousins.

You're not gonna make any friends in Appalachia with that attitude, mister!

[Caballoflaco]

Well, pro Iranian Shi’ia members of the Iraqi parlaiment just voted to expel us forces from Iraq. That said the articles I’ve seen said a lot of the Sunni and Kurd members of Parlaiment didn’t show up to vote. Also, they haven’t passed a binding law. I guess we’ll just have to see how this plays out.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aawsa...resence%3famp=

[Borderland]

You keep ignoring this question. What of our economy and culture are you willing to surrender to be what you think the good guy looks like?

To this point Americans constitute 5% of the world's population but consume 24% of the world's energy. That's been going on since WW2 when our economy started to blossom. From the end of ww2 to around the turn of the century we had a higher average GDP than we've had the last 20 years which has been below 3%. The US economy is in decline.

We would have a much better return on our dollar if we invaded Venezuela. They must be hiding some WMD's somewhere.

The Iraqi parliament just voted to throw the US out. Looks like we wore out our welcome.

[Borderland]

Iraqis don't want to be one people since they aren't one people, it's three distinct ethnic groups who don't like each other for reasons that go back centuries. Forcing them to live together in a democracy was never going to work. I still think that we could have done alright with nation building if we'd have split them into three different nations... and we should have taken the gas too haha

edit: also we should have made it against the law for them to marry and have kids with their own cousins.

Do you mean something like the setup Saddam had there before he started amassing all those WMD's.

[Stephanie B]

That’s seriously how you think this stuff works? Do you figure at zero dark fifteen Obama said, ok, fuck it, let’s go get this guy?

You are talking about two different people. And I suspect that you know that.

Trump has a track record. Those who have worked for him in this Administration support the notion that he flies by the eat of his pants, with little to no regard for intelligence assessments or analysis. Trump says that he's the expert on everything. Nobody knows more than he does.

So yes, I believe that he is winging it here, as well.

[Stephanie B]

Your bias is showing. The President definitely says some stuff that most wouldn’t and sometimes seems to pull ideas out of nowhere, but to assume that’s how this went down could only mean you have the mental comprehension of a child (which I know you don’t) or you’re so biased against him that you believe everything he does has to be wrong.

Look to his track record. Trump has a history of being impulsive to the point of recklessness. If acknowledging that is bias in your eyes, then I'll own it.

[Stephanie B]

Competent, and quality, by whose standards?

Just because they are pretty good at training, supplying, equipping, and enabling terrorists doesn't make them "good" or competent, or capable.

They were employing human wave attacks during the Iran-Iraq War (AKA "Who cares who wins?"). They keep touting new weapon systems, which are vapor ware.

Iran is the North Korea of the Middle East.

Didn't seem to bother anybody when we were effectively allied with Iran in order to deal with ISIS.

(Nor did it seem to bother the Right when the Reagan Administration was selling weapons to Iran, but that's old news.)

[blues]

I have to give Stephanie her due...while I don't align with the Dems by and large, I think it's fair to question the administration and Trump...that's a sound policy for any important decision in life.

Besides, truth be told, I don't think I'd seek his counsel on the most important personal affairs or decisions affecting me or my family. (Well, maybe I should've used a term other than affairs but you know what I mean. )