Our big, fun Iraq discussion thread

[BehindBlueI's]

Do you believe it will be anything other than "from their prospective we are the bad guys! So actually it's all our fault" ?

-Cory

I don't even know who's under discussion at this point. Is the claim Iraq had a claim on Kuwait? Iran has a claim on Iraq? No idea.

[Nephrology]

I don't even know who's under discussion at this point.

Well, at least a reassuring sign this is still the pistol-forum general discussion subforum .

[GardoneVT]

The B-52s are continually updated. They don't fly with 70's equipment and without structural enhancements.

Neither do the Iranians. They don’t have stealth or precision munitions, but their equipment isn’t the same as the 70s either.

[BehindBlueI's]

Are they existing tribes that have been at war with each other for thousands of years despite western attempts to draw boundaries? Or are they true outsiders?

Who? Where?

[RoyGBiv]

Desert Storm wasn't a walkover? Are you fucking retarded? It was a complete overmatch and decisive victory on such a landslide that there's few comparisons in history. We voluntarily stopped destroying Iraqi military convoys out of humanitarian concern, because it was that unfair of a fight. The invasion of Iraq was a complete walkover as well.

You seriously think the Iranian military would provide more resistance in a conventional war, just because they have some airplanes and tanks from the 70s and 80s which, regardless of being unable to upgrade to modern standards, they've been able to keep barely functional due to black market deals for parts?

The Ruskies would agree.
DESERT STORM FILLED SOVIET MILITARY WITH AWE

Iran fought these guys to a standstill for a decade.

How much of their military is fighting for passion for country, vs for food, conscription, bloodlust and money, I wonder? For how long would that enthusiasm hold out against a no holds US effort?

[TiroFijo]

The USA is not going to stay in Iraq forever, and I don't see it "winning" this super expensive and everlasting war, and even less hearts and minds...

Levelling the country and its neighbours is not a realistic option, even less than the "nation building" pipe dream.

How do you think americans will look back to this mess twenty years from now?

...supposing you manage to get out by then

[Borderland]

It’s your opinion that buttresses your argument? I’m seriously trying to parse your logic and I cannot do so.

I'm thinking that at this point if there were any ongoing negotiations with the Iraqis secretary Pompeo would express that to the media. I think the US had an agreement that they were in a training capacity only and the Iraqis see the drone strike and other Iranian militia strike as some kind of huge violation. The strike killed an Iraqi military officer. I'm not sure the US knew who was in those vehicles for sure, or maybe they did and didn't care.

I'm sure they're communicating at the top levels but Pompeo sounds like there really isn't anything to discuss. We're here and we're staying here. Of course if Trump changes his mind (he does that) then maybe it's just a temporary position for media consumption.

I'm thinking a few moves ahead so mostly it's just a ball game for me. I don't have any skin in the game anymore.

[TGS]

Desert Storm coalition official casualties of killed or wounded ; 1,518
OIF coalition + contractors official casualties of killed or wounded; 39,145

Okay, so we had 1518 casualties in Desert Storm. You're saying that means it wasn't a walkover? Did you ever look at Iraqi casualties?

And the 39,145 number you're using reflects the entirety of our involvement in Iraq, not just the steamrolling of their military. How many were lost in the 21 day push to Baghdad?

I don’t know who pissed in your Wheaties this morning, but age ain’t nuthin but a number. We have B-52s predating the Kennedy administration still flying today. Guess what , Kim Jun Jackass still shuts his yap when we rotate them to Guam. Because build date won’t mean shit when his bunker gets crushed by high explosive.

Dude....I don't even know where to start. The capabilities brought by our fleet of B52s today is in a different league compared to the capabilities that B52s brought in the 60s.

Just because they have a token number of somewhat modern fighters on top of their larger amount of obsolete fighters, which they can barely keep flying as-is and have no industry to fall back on in wartime to fix that (unlike us), and might get a lucky shot with an old beyond-service-life missile (if it even fires), doesn't mean that their military poses any significance of more than a speed bump.

You've really got to get a better argument than, "well we lost 1500 soldiers in Desert Storm, and we have B52s" to why their military is some sort of magical fucking gem that would perform 4 decades ahead of where it's actually capable.

[Borderland]

Iran's in a tough spot.

They're going to have to let this one slide or suffer a military hardware downgrade like Saddam did in the 1st gulf war.

The highway of death comes to mind here.

[Baldanders]

I am a nobody and know nothing. I would think that there are two levels of accomplishment we could shoot for. The first is to make the leadership of Iran think that taking more action against the US (including continued development of their nuclear ambitions) is too expensive. The second is to weaken them enough to cause their many enemies to destroy them completely.

It is all bridge painting. If we check them, we will have to stay aggressive to remind them, and they will work hard to forget. If we destroy them, bigger assholes will take their place.

In other words, they are EVIL and DUMB, and have no qualities that we associate with rational actors, much like children, while we have our flaws, but we are moral and " the good guys." Or so the neo-conservatives have been bleating since 1979. And Iranian nukes have been "here in 16-24 months" since 1985.

But, besides Israel, our tightest "friends" in the region had a group of their citizens commit the most lethal terrorist act in history on our soil, and they show every sign of being a threat in that manner for the forseeable future. And they assassinate their own citizens with impunity.

But my god, "Iran, the North Korea of the Middle East."

We need to get the hell out of the ME. I could give a shit about moral culpability at this point. The ME needs a good century to tear itself apart without the West trying to hold together a plan of nation-states that was designed to keep to the ME weak and easily manipulated from the start. (Particularly Iraq-- those assembled to create it openly stated "this will never work.")

But as anti- Iran setiment has been inculcated as patriotism by our elites for over 40 years, of course that's not happening.