Multiple people shot at White Settlement, Texas church

[Redhat]

Re: “God helps those who help themselves”

Not to make this a theological discussion... it may not be written in the Bible, but I certainly heard that all the time growing up.
Maybe it’s more of a truism learned by midwestern-raised protestants.

Try Ben Franklin for popularizing that saying

[blues]

Re: “God helps those who help themselves”

Not to make this a theological discussion... it may not be written in the Bible, but I certainly heard that all the time growing up.
Maybe it’s more of a truism learned by midwestern-raised protestants.

Eastern half-breeds too. And who gets to define "truth"?

[TheNewbie]

Re: “God helps those who help themselves”

Not to make this a theological discussion... it may not be written in the Bible, but I certainly heard that all the time growing up.
Maybe it’s more of a truism learned by midwestern-raised protestants.

Kind of like “Pray like everything depends on God, work like everything depends on you”.

[Redhat]

Posted in another sub-forum but probably worth a look here

Ken Hackathorn:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Ken-Hackathorn

[TCinVA]

Got together with John Murphy and some other guys and we tried to replicate the conditions of the fight-stopping shot.



I certainly didn't get it on my first try. All credit to Jack Wilson for making that shot in real conditions.

[BillSWPA]

Re: picking the gun up off the table: that statement was made in the context of a new shooter. Drawing from a holster is an intermediate level skill which in that circumstance would need to be taught later.


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[Yung]

Here are links to Claude Werner's blog that relate to this matter.

https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....evel-of-skill/
https://tacticalprofessor.wordpress....skill-part-ii/

To go with Mr. Chandler's video, here's Mr. Correia's.



Greg Ellifritz's Church Security compilation.
https://www.activeresponsetraining.n...ce-compilation

We have had a few previous discussion threads on the subject here, dating back to 2017 around the time Sutherland happened. Here is the most recent one from last year for reference.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....g-a-New-Normal

[GJM]

“Moving target” can have a wide range of meanings, and how fast it is moving makes an enormous amount of difference in the shot. What Tim was shooting was a much harder target than the target in the Hackathorn video.

[Casual Friday]

One of the other "greeters" called me last night looking for recommendations for belt mounted holsters and where to get them. He's been carrying a Shield in an ankle rig for a few years despite us having the conversation about it not being the ideal location for a primary gun. He purchased a gen 5 Glock 19 earlier this week, but since WA has gone full retard red coat with I1639, he won't be able to pick it up for a week to 30 days. I pointed him towards JM Custom and Dark Star Gear and told him I'd loan him a G17 holster if he gets the gun before the holster.

[BehindBlueI's]

I suspect this may make me sound like something of an outlier, but my main takeaway (there are several other notable learning points) from this incident is simply this; Seldom can your speed in presenting the gun overcome deficiencies is awareness and readiness.

Concur.

My take away was that movement draws attention. A very slow draw, attracted the attention of the shooter.

Also concur. I have not seen good results from someone drawing on a drawn gun without some distraction technique employed. It's nearly impossible to get inside someone's reaction time if they are primed and ready. I got lucky when a guy who started drawing before me got fouled in his shirt and was slow while I didn't and wasn't.

Remember our discussion of how some officers were told to miss a shot at qualifications so you won't be asked why you didn't shoot him in the leg or shoot the gun out of his hand. I brought that up when a guy who said he was a sniper told me to miss some at my TX CHL test for that reason. I thought he was nuts but some folks here said they heard the same thing.

I was thinking that we should have public service announcements telling terrorists to shoot victims in the knee.

We had an officer asked in Grand Jury why he didn't shoot the gun out of the suspect's hand.

Here's a way to thin the flotsam from this discussion: everyone who's actually shot someone and gone through that mental process and execution feel free to comment. The rest of you keyboard commandos sit down and let the grownups talk, because you don't know shit. Those church folks rose to the occasion and delivered.

I can firmly say I wasn't as fast as "range conditions" because it took me some time to realize what was going on. I thought my guy was dead but he was playing possum. I had him covered because that's what my training said to do but it took me a bit to catch up when he started to move and get back in the fight. Anyone with video doing a split second count isn't of any interest to me. As you say, the mental process matters. People tend to think of thought as instantaneous, but it isn't. Comparing a full OODA loop cycle and execution in the cluttered real world vs a draw primed by to an anticipated auditory only signal is meaningless.