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Thread: Multiple people shot at White Settlement, Texas church

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Mindset
    Tactics
    Skill
    Equipment

    Competency levels in all four determined the outcomes for all involved.

    The first armed responder had the mindset, he reacted and acted about as well as can be expected considering the circumstances.
    His tactical options were extremely limited by proximity and a confined area, he had a shit sandwich from the start with really not many options for improving the situation.
    His skill and equipment were where he lost the fight. Poor equipment selection and poor execution.
    He was in a hole tactically and didn't have a big enough shovel to dig his way out.

    The usher who was shot second never came out of his mental freeze. It happens.

    Jack Wilson was damn solid in all four and it showed.
    Ready, willing and able to get involved with the right equipment and skills developed through time and effort on the range to get it done.

    The dead POS.
    The bad guy (especially a suicidal one) will almost always start with the mental and tactical advantage.
    He identified the primary and secondary threats to him and prioritized them correctly.
    He pulled that shotgun pretty damn fast, fumbled with the safety and had zero recoil control but still managed to get the first two shots off which both connected.
    Was he a "good shooter" by any metric, probably not. It's a good lesson that inside 10' damn near everyone is "good enough".
    Was his equipment selection "good", a pistol grip shotgun is generally considered a poor choice by professionals. But he managed to conceal it well enough that people were surprised when it came out and again, inside 10' damn near anything is "good enough".

    My analysis is:
    The POS started with multiple advantages and just happened to run into someone who was way better prepared.
    One guy started in a hole and just couldn't dig his way out.
    One guy never got past the first O in OODA.
    Jack Wilson saved a lot of lives by putting in the mental and physical work of preparing for the fight through years of dedicated training. Then defaulting to his level of competence.
    Agree with what you discuss above. What I would like to bring up is cover and concealment. There was no cover available, and very little concealment. However, the first armed responder appeared to stand up and present himself to the shooter, and then start his draw. His draw was obvious and slow, giving the time for the shooter to shift his attention and shotgun from the usher to the first armed responder and fire. By standing first, then reaching for his pistol, he appeared to draw the shooters attention to him. The shooter’s shotgun was already out, while the first armed responder had to perform his full draw cycle while under the direct attention of the shooter.

    Watching the video repeatedly, I wish the first armed responder had performed his draw cycle while seated, and partially concealed by the pew in front of him. He would not have drawn the shooters attention to himself until later, saving himself one or several critical seconds. The shooter has his attention initially focused on the usher. it appears that If the first armed responder had drawn and presentEd from partial concealment, then risen as necessary for a clear avenue of fire, he might have created a more advantageous outcome.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master"

  2. #122
    1) not sure how hard to do, but comms would seem like a very helpful thing to allow members of the security team to identify a possible threat and make a plan. Do church security teams typically have this capability?

    2) Mr Wilson is to church security, and possibly more, what Sully is to aviation.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    1) not sure how hard to do, but comms would seem like a very helpful thing to allow members of the security team to identify a possible threat and make a plan. Do church security teams typically have this capability?

    2) Mr Wilson is to church security, and possibly more, what Sully is to aviation.
    We have radios/earpieces at my church.

  4. #124
    Site Supporter 41magfan's Avatar
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    Since I noted in an earlier post I thought any useful learning points (for application to some future event since this one is already in the books) had very little to do with shooting and shooting skill, I'll offer a few more outlier comments … none of which are meant to disparage the actions of ANYONE involved in this particular incident;

    - If your job is to provide security, decide in advance if it's going to be passive or active and then act, plan, and prepare accordingly. Don't confuse those two activities.

    - If someone unknown to you shows up (unexplainably) wearing an obvious disguise and a trench coat, I would suggest that you not allow him access to any area you're responsible for securing.

    - If you can't or won't restrict entry to any such a person, at least assign some able-bodied people (plural) to "bird dog" him while he's on the premises.

    - If you can't or won't limit the movement of any such person you've allowed access, at least actively monitor his movements (at all times, in all places) so as to provide a level of control should it be necessary.

    There are obviously a number of issues related to the implementation of these protocols, but that's just a matter of dotting the i's and crossing the t's.
    The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.

  5. #125
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triggerf16 View Post
    Agree with what you discuss above. What I would like to bring up is cover and concealment. There was no cover available, and very little concealment. However, the first armed responder appeared to stand up and present himself to the shooter, and then start his draw. His draw was obvious and slow, giving the time for the shooter to shift his attention and shotgun from the usher to the first armed responder and fire. By standing first, then reaching for his pistol, he appeared to draw the shooters attention to him. The shooter’s shotgun was already out, while the first armed responder had to perform his full draw cycle while under the direct attention of the shooter.

    Watching the video repeatedly, I wish the first armed responder had performed his draw cycle while seated, and partially concealed by the pew in front of him. He would not have drawn the shooters attention to himself until later, saving himself one or several critical seconds. The shooter has his attention initially focused on the usher. it appears that If the first armed responder had drawn and presentEd from partial concealment, then risen as necessary for a clear avenue of fire, he might have created a more advantageous outcome.
    Tactics are entirely situational.
    Knowing what tactic to apply to a situation comes from training.

    My guess is responder #1 has never drawn his firearm from a seated position in his life.
    That thought probably never even crossed his mind.
    He just did not have that neural pathway established in his brain as a reaction.

    My observation is he's probably never drawn his handgun under time pressure in his life either.
    His draw looks exactly like the draw of the dozens of first time competitors we have at out CCW matches.
    The first draw a new competitor has on the clock is almost always about 3/4 speed and awkward, with a delayed response to the buzzer and that's just under the pressure of a local match.
    My guess is up until that moment all his draws at the range (if he's actually ever done any from his carry gear) were done at about that speed with about that amount of urgency.

    Cognitive overload means you'll default to your level of competence... maybe.
    If you're lucky you'll perform at your average... if you're lucky.
    Plan on performing about like you would on your most recent worst range day.
    Last edited by JodyH; 12-31-2019 at 01:16 PM.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  6. #126
    Site Supporter 41magfan's Avatar
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    This is just my personal observation and opinion, but Shooting Victim #1 and #2 both displayed the classic behavior associated with being in Condition White ….. which deals with READINESS, not awareness. You can play "catch-up" (to some degree) with your lack of awareness, but mental readiness can't usually be ramped-up as quickly or decisively.
    The path of least resistance will seldom get you where you need to be.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    1) not sure how hard to do, but comms would seem like a very helpful thing to allow members of the security team to identify a possible threat and make a plan. Do church security teams typically have this capability?

    2) Mr Wilson is to church security, and possibly more, what Sully is to aviation.
    Motorola digital radios (about 35) with several more analog units for the support staff/children's ministry/bus ministry.

    Repeaters, base stations, camera system that covers two campuses.......

    We're really blessed with support from church staff.

  8. #128
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    My take is they weren't oblivious to the threat but they were in denial, probably willful denial to some extent.

    I've had this discussion with my wife and some of the other volunteers at her church and the daughter of one of the deceased highlighted it in one of her interviews.
    Everybody recognized that this dude was off.
    Everybody wanted to believe he was a lost soul looking for help. Because that's what Christians do.

    I've told my wife they need a bunch of selfish heathens like me for security because I make a plan to kill people the first time I meet them and then work backwards from that baseline.
    But I've been told that's pretty much incompatible with Christian doctrine (but luckily my wife agrees with my outlook to some extent).
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  9. #129
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Down the rabbit hole...
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Everybody recognized that this dude was off.
    Everybody wanted to believe he was a lost soul looking for help. Because that's what Christians do.
    It’s been some moons since Sunday school for me, but if I recall that IS the mission of a church. To be a place of help for the lost. All things considered her mindset isn’t wrong.
    The Minority Marksman.
    "When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
    -a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.

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