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Thread: Decision Point for Switching from Irons to RDO?

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by MVS View Post
    I like Aaron's work and reviews. I agree the RMR is proven as the most durable right now. I have a type 1 on a Gen 3 19 that has been on there about 10 years and 80,000 rounds now. It has seen a lot of classes and some mild abuse. I have a second type 2 on a Gen 5 because the first one flickered during DRY FIRE. Overall they are great. Just still not where I would like to see them.
    There is a difference between the RMR type 2 being one of the most durable red dot optics, which it is, and the RMR being “durable” as judged by the reliability of an Aimpoint rifle red dot or a Leupold scope.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #22
    http://www.vdmsr.com/2017/06/optic-m...ncepts-in.html

    Wrote the above article in 2017, pretty much still true even though the ACRO is probably the closest I've personally seen the threshold be reached for optics on pistols as an EDC / Duty tool. I know a lot of guys took the jump with the RMR and now everything else under the sun (like holosuns - pun intended) and that's just short sighted in my opinion.

    I may carry the ACRO full time, but I am about 3/4 of the way through vetting it as a good alternative to standard irons.

    As I mentioned in the article, unless your eye sight prohibits you from using iron sights correctly, and unless you absolutely require the dot for long range precision shots with a pistol due to various circumstances (hunting, locale, etc), I would say stick with iron sights.

    I am, however, still hopeful that some company comes out with some red dot optic that does what the ACRO does, with a smaller dot and year long battery life, while fixing all the known issues associated with a duty-grade optic. Like I said, the ACRO is damn close, but it's still got minor issues which may not be disqualifying, testing is still on going.
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  3. #23
    Whatever your decision point from switching from irons to rds, you're likely to find you wished it happened earlier.
    Last edited by YVK; 01-09-2020 at 09:56 PM.
    “Well," said Pooh, "what I like best," and then he had to stop and think. Because although Eating Honey was a very good thing to do, there was a moment just before you began to eat it which was better than when you were, but he didn't know what it was called.

  4. #24
    So, is the Trijicon SRO a fairly safe purchase for primarily range only use?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiledviking View Post
    So, is the Trijicon SRO a fairly safe purchase for primarily range only use?
    Yes, based on multiple copies.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    Whatever your decision point from switching from irons to rds, you're likely to find you wished it happened earlier.
    That's literally the first thing that came to my mind after the first five shots with one

  7. #27
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    "Duty" and "EDC" are two different things for most people.

    Instead of just copying what police or the military do, I rather look at my own life and how my defensive handguns are used, treated, and maintained to decide if something is durable enough for defensive use. I consider police and/or military adoption as a factor, but not the only or even the dominant factor.

    My EDC pistol sees the least number of round fired through it in a year out of all my handguns. It's rarely shot in competition or training. I have other, functionally identical handguns for that. I think I've dropped it on a hard surface maybe twice in the 5 - 6 years that I've had it. I treat it well because I see no reason to abuse the crap out of it and because I bet my life on it working when I need it.

    Wrestling people to the ground to take them into custody isn't in my job description. I live an average, relatively low stress life and so does my carry pistol. It's always protected from the elements because it's concealed.

    I've read all the arguments about a steep learning curve and being so used to focusing on the front sight bla bla bla…….I haven't had the ability to focus on the front sight for the best part of the last ten years. And even if I did, there is ample science telling us that the human eye will focus on the threat when under stress. If your draw and presentation are what they should be, having the dot appear on target should not be an issue. So far in the limited amount of dry and live fire I've done, which includes vertical and lateral transitions in dry fire around the house, I don't see a huge issue. SHO is a little harder, and WHO is a lot harder when it comes to pointing the gun well enough to have the dot appear in the window, and I'm sure I'll find some challenging shots from awkward positions that will test my ability to keep the gun in front of my face correctly oriented. All that just means more dry fire reps.

    Based on the totality of my circumstances, and the evidence of durability that I've seen on publicly available media, I've concluded that the Trijicon RMR is rugged enough for me to use in a defensive handgun.

    YMMV
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 01-10-2020 at 07:08 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    "Duty" and "EDC" are two different things for most people.

    Instead of just copying what police or the military do, I rather look at my own life and how my defensive handguns are used, treated, and maintained to decide if something is durable enough for defensive use. I consider police and/or military adoption as a factor, but not the only or even the dominant factor.

    My EDC pistol sees the least number of round fired through it in a year out of all my handguns. It's rarely shot in competition or training. I have other, functionally identical handguns for that. I think I've dropped it on a hard surface maybe twice in the 5 - 6 years that I've had it. I treat it well because I see no reason to abuse the crap out of it and because I bet my life on it working when I need it.

    Wrestling people to the ground to take them into custody isn't in my job description. I live an average, relatively low stress life and so does my carry pistol. It's always protected from the elements because it's concealed.

    I've read all the arguments about a steep learning curve and being so used to focusing on the front sight bla bla bla…….I haven't had the ability to focus on the front sight for the best part of the last ten years. And even if I did, there is ample science telling us that the human eye will focus on the threat when under stress. If your draw and presentation are what they should be, having the dot appear on target should not be an issue. So far in the limited amount of dry and live fire I've done, which includes vertical and lateral transitions in dry fire around the house, I don't see a huge issue. SHO is a little harder, and WHO is a lot harder when it comes to pointing the gun well enough to have the dot appear in the window, and I'm sure I'll find some challenging shots from awkward positions that will test my ability to keep the gun in front of my face correctly oriented. All that just means more dry fire reps.

    Based on the totality of my circumstances, and the evidence of durability that I've seen on publicly available media, I've concluded that the Trijicon RMR is rugged enough for me to use in a defensive handgun.

    YMMV
    How often have you, or anyone who wants to answer, trained dryfire and/or FoF with an RMR/RDS when the target is moving and/or you're moving and shooting one handed?

    That's one of the biggest issues with dots when you add that movement. It becomes extremely difficult in the speed of real world confrontations (not talking about crab walking, that's a range dance).

    I will also say that there may be some science to back up subject focus during high heart rate, deadly force situations, but this is main from the untrained people like victims or witnesses, ie: "omg the gun was sooooo big" type of response. To those who train, this becomes less of an issue and the only way you get accurate hits is through accurately using your sights. I would contend that within 7 yards, if you use a pistol while target focusing you can get just about the same accuracy of hits using the back-plate method, particularly when going really fast. No reason to add another failure point to the gun. Hence my stance on optics on pistols used as precision tools instead of blurry/hazy dots out in space.
    Last edited by voodoo_man; 01-10-2020 at 10:02 AM.
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  9. #29
    Member MVS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    How often have you, or anyone who wants to answer, trained dryfire and/or FoF with an RMR/RDS when the target is moving and/or you're moving and shooting one handed?

    That's one of the biggest issues with dots when you add that movement. It becomes extremely difficult in the speed of real world confrontations (not talking about crab walking, that's a range dance).

    I will also say that there may be some science to back up subject focus during high heart rate, deadly force situations, but this is main from the untrained people like victims or witnesses, ie: "omg the gun was sooooo big" type of response. To those who train, this becomes less of an issue and the only way you get accurate hits is through accurately using your sights. I would contend that within 7 yards, if you use a pistol while target focusing you can get just about the same accuracy of hits using the back-plate method, particularly when going really fast. No reason to add another failure point to the gun. Hence my stance on optics on pistols used as precision tools instead of blurry/hazy dots out in space.
    When target is moving I have great confidence in my dot guns. When I am moving and the target is moving? Currently that is by far my weakest interface with the platform.

  10. #30
    Hobbyist JAD's Avatar
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    I’m open minded to rdo despite concerns about reliability because I don’t understand the penalties for rdo failure to be very severe. I don’t understand common rdo failure modes to preclude the use of buis, and I currently rely on the functional equivalent of buis on a daily basis. What am I missing? Why would concerns about rdo reliability preclude their immediate adoption for concealed carry applications?

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