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Thread: Locked Wrist Enigma, advice requested

  1. #21
    In becoming a better shooter, I am convinced a little bit of smarts goes a long way, but too much gets in the way.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Texas
    I’ll admit I started to read with sympathy and began to formulate my own thoughts and responses and then... Jesus Christ what a thread. I’ll echo some of the other posters here - go take a class or go shoot or go to a competition and bug some of the better shooters.

    I will say I’ve been in your situation before (lack of resources), over analytical, etc. ANY shooter that is trying to get better on this planet can use more time and ammunition. Even Eric G wants more time and ammo. You need to get out and APPLY. Make more time or money or opportunity if you really care. Talk is cheap and there’s a great quote by Bruce Lee - learn and take what is useful and that works for you and discard the rest.

    P.S. Writing this as much for me as for you.
    When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk. -Tuco
    Today is victory over yourself of yesterday... -Miyamoto Musashi

  3. #23
    Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I just want to say that it's possible to both think and talk about a problem and theory *and* practice and work on shooting. I thought it would be taken as a given that I'm actually working on improving my shooting through dry fire and real practice. I'm just keeping this thread to the theoretical because that's what I can talk about on the Internet. It takes a few minutes or so to talk these things out on paper and lets me consider things. It's not like I'm exchanging real shooting practice for typing things up on the Internet. Just because I recognize the scope of the problem to really get "good data" on the problem doesn't mean that I don't recognize that I can improve without having a totally rigorous evaluation solution.

    So, I'm looking for as many tips, thoughts, ideas, diagnostics, and the like as I can get, because every different way that someone says something or interprets something helps to paint a picture that I can use to help refine my practice and improve my shooting. It doesn't mean that I'm just trying to do nothing but theory-craft this whole thing into success. Obviously that doesn't work.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by guymontag View Post
    I’ll admit I started to read with sympathy and began to formulate my own thoughts and responses and then... Jesus Christ what a thread. I’ll echo some of the other posters here - go take a class or go shoot or go to a competition and bug some of the better shooters.
    It's a given that I need to do the above, and I am working on it. But don't let the need for practice stop you from formulating your thoughts and sharing them. I think we can do both, and if the answer were really that everyone just needed to do some shooting and figure it out in person or for themselves, then there wouldn't be a point to having this Marksmanship sub-forum except to share results, and not to share information to assist in learning.

    I'm practicing, but I still would like to hear your thoughts in between my practice sessions.

  5. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    I'm an engineer. I GET where you're coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    Just because I recognize the scope of the problem to really get "good data" on the problem doesn't mean that I don't recognize that I can improve without having a totally rigorous evaluation solution.
    Based on my personal shooting experience and what I've learned along the way, you need to severely pare down the number of variables that you consider significant.

    In any designed experiment you learn that many variables you thought to consider have very little influence in the system's behavior while relatively few variables account for the majority of I/O relationships.

    Shooting is the same way.

    If you are so mired in the details that you can't step back and quickly pare down your variables, then by God get some trainer to help you do it.

    If you don't, it will take far too long to make any sort of meaningful headway.
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 12-29-2019 at 12:08 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Based on my personal shooting experience and what I've learned along the way, you need to severely pare down the number of variables that you consider significant.

    In any designed experiment you learn that many variables you thought to consider have very little influence in the system's behavior while relatively few variables account for the majority of I/O relationships.

    Shooting is the same way.

    If you are so mired in the details that you can't step back and quickly pare down your variables, then by God get some trainer to help you do it.

    If you don't, it will take far too long to make any sort of meaningful headway.
    Indeed, I agree. I was hoping that by posting that list someone would respond and say, "such as such variables aren't really significant or aren't a major contributing factor IMO, and these are the factors I would consider highest predictors for performance."

    I have the things I *think* are most effective and that *appear* most effective to me in my practice, but that doesn't mean that I'm actually correct, so I hope others will chime in and identify what they think is or is not relevant.

    By posting this list, though, I might have discouraged rather encouraged the simplification of the problem space.

  7. #27
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Virginia
    "If I don't let the gun move in my hand and I am reasonably relaxed, then I can get very consistent tracking and movement of the gun, but there is waay too much recoil and muzzle rise/gun movement vertically at way too slow a speed to get fast follow-up shots. It is consistent, but not fast."

    How much muzzle climb and what kind of split times are we talking about here?

  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    OP, how exactly do you define success as it relates to your grip and how to you measure it?

    Please be extremely brief and concise.

  9. #29
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    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    Really though, I humbly submit that I'm not even at a point where I can "squeeze" out the most of that drill based on the timer. I can already get a ton of diagnostic from the drill simply by watching the front sight move,..........yada, yada, yada......
    Please help me understand that.......in what way are you not at a point where you can "squeeze the most out of that drill"?

    The doubles drill is simple. At X distance, running Y splits, you should get about Z% alfas.

    Let's just take 10 yards. At that distance, running .20 splits for five pairs, how many As, how many Cs, and how many Ds do you end up with?

    If you're getting "a ton of diagnostic" from watching the front sight move, why is improvement not coming?

    Does not compute.
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 12-29-2019 at 07:16 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post


    Around Thanksgiving, Darryl and his wife visited. I introduced the drill to them, and Darryl thought it was great diagnostically and tactically, as it involved two accountable shots.
    That would be Darryl's interpretation of the test. This year's class, Ben mentioned, and I asked again to be absolutely sure, it was important to me: the second shot is triggered at the speed of your finger, not eyes. I would not call that accountable.
    I actually asked Ben about locking wrists during that class, since his associate spends so much time talking about it. Ben said that almost everyone does that automatically. I didn't push that further, but I thought he implied the strong hand.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

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