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Thread: Locked Wrist Enigma, advice requested

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Something TPC and Ron Avery have said for years, is the key is not to shoot faster — the key is to shoot earlier. If you wait until the sights return, and then start the trigger press, you will have a very different result than if you start the trigger press when the sights are still in motion.
    This is something I have been working on lately, as that was one of the major issues I had for a long time.

  2. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Arcfide, I lost track as this thread progressed, but have you posted any video of you shooting splits?
    I still haven't been able to get to a range and get any footage. I have greatly appreciated everyone giving their thoughts here, and I'll be getting some video footage I hope to help clarify the "current state" of my ability to manage recoil. As I mentioned, it's very hard for me to get to a range, get footage, and be at a range that will let me do these particularly training drills.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    If that works it could be extremely useful to me, as I am often shooting in places where a normal shot timer cannot be used, or where I am prohibited from training drills such as the doubles drill.
    I have one, and it works extremely reliably on the accelerometer setting.

  4. #94
    Okay! I was able to get out to the range today, but I was not in a position to get a recording of my shooting, unfortunately. The truth is that it's likely going to be difficult to get a recording of my shooting simply because of logistics.

    However, I was able to test out the ShotMaxx 2 timer, and it worked almost perfectly. It was definitely a help when shooting on a busier line. The RSO's did allow me to do "double taps" as they called them, but that was about the limit of what I was permitted.

    I shot 60 rounds of accuracy groups over the Beretta APX Target and APX Full Size first. After that, I did 15 strings of doubles, of 5 doubles each string, giving 10 rounds per string. I shot using a Beretta APX Target and a Beretta APX Full Size, and I also swapped the frame and the slides for the two guns for the last two strings, so that I was shooting the Target lower (no finger grooves, non-broken-in trigger) on top of the Full Size slide (broken in striker and springs).

    I did not do this in a very scientific way, but I did 4 strings of the Target, followed by four strings of the Full Size, followed by 4 (recorded) strings of the Target, and then 2 strings of the mixed lower/upper. 1 string failed to measure accurately on the timer.

    This is not scientific because after each drill, I did some mental and target diagnosis and made some adjustments based on what I was seeing and sensing. I was also progressively increasing my speed/cadence in order to not freak out the RSOs.

    I have two targets that were shot. The first target was shot over the first 60 rounds, or 6 strings, 4 Target, and 2 Full Size. The next target contains the rest of the 90 rounds. The targets were shot at a distance of ~5 yards.

    During shooting I noticed two major observable but qualitative issues: muscling the gun leading to excessive muzzle movement during recovery of the gun, and a mental "hiccup" right before the second shot due to getting distracted by the front sight. These two issues were most predominant in the first target and the first few strings. I made some adjustments during firing to experiment and also to try to address issues I was seeing. Importantly, at the start, I had the following behaviors:

    * Front sight focus
    * Slightly bent elbows
    * Fairly deliberate wrist and grip tension
    * Medium arm tension
    * Lower part of the pad of the finger used to actuate the trigger

    By the end of session, I had modified or changed each of the above to this:

    * Target Focus with almost no sight focus
    * Arms more extended
    * Less "intentional" wrist and arm tension
    * More finger on the trigger, to about the first joint or around there

    By the last two strings, the RSOs were reporting "good hits" on the target, and based on my own shot calling, I strongly believe that most of the fliers can be accounted for much earlier in the session, with group size and target accuracy shrinking significantly throughout the session (I would have expected this).

    There are the string timings, with T indicating the APX Target was used, and F indicating the Full Size, and * indicating the Target lower on the Full Size upper:

    T: 0.69 0.56 0.61 0.50 1.19 = 0.71 avg
    T: 0.47 0.50 0.42 0.43 0.45 = 0.45 avg
    T: 0.41 0.41 0.42 0.52 0.43 = 0.44 avg
    T: 0.49 0.40 0.41 0.41 0.45 = 0.43 avg
    F: 0.53 0.35 0.35 0.34 0.32 = 0.38 avg
    F: 0.49 0.35 0.32 0.33 0.30 = 0.36 avg
    F: 0.44 0.35 0.35 0.33 0.33 = 0.36 avg
    F: 0.33 0.31 0.30 0.35 0.34 = 0.33 avg
    T: 0.40 0.34 0.33 0.40 0.41 = 0.38 avg
    T: 0.36 0.36 0.35 0.35 0.32 = 0.35 avg
    T: 0.37 0.36 0.30 0.30 0.37 = 0.34 avg
    T: (Failed to Record)
    T: 0.34 0.33 0.32 0.34 0.35 = 0.34 avg
    *: 0.35 0.21 0.27 0.28 0.30 = 0.28 avg
    *: 0.24 0.28 0.31 0.26 0.24 = 0.27 avg

    These cadences are all what I would call "comfortable" in that I don't feel particularly "hard pressed" when shooting. I'm not struggling to run the trigger, and I'm not feeling any particularly high pressure in terms of keeping the gun "under control." But of course, I don't have a lot of people to compare against in person. I wouldn't necessarily call it "confident" though, in that I don't consider it very confident unless I can know exactly where each of my shots hit for each press, and while I could call a general area, and tell when I had some bad fliers and dropped some shots, I am not particularly confident in know exactly where my shots were going. I would prefer more confidence in that respect.

    And here are the photos to go along with this. Target 1 is the first target shot, and target 2 the second. Target 1 includes a Letter sized paper to give perspective on the silhouette, which was about 11 - 12" wide.

    Target 1:
    Name:  Target 1.jpg
Views: 248
Size:  30.2 KB

    Target 2:
    Name:  Target 2.jpg
Views: 254
Size:  37.3 KB

    I would like to hear what others here have to say about the times relative to the accuracy and what they feel about what's being shown or not shown here. I hope this also hopes to ground the "current state" of my skills a little bit better. I am quite sure that I could have pushed my trigger finger into the .10 - .20 second split times, but I don't know what would have happened to accuracy. I didn't feel comfortable enough to push that speed with the range environment.

    Personally, I am not satisfied with the accuracy of Target 2, and don't feel that I would call that acceptable (5 yards). Would others call that acceptable?

  5. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
    I have one, and it works extremely reliably on the accelerometer setting.
    I just tried it out, and it worked well on the Acc setting, but it did mess up one of the strings with some very strange readings, and it seems like it just went a bit funky on that single string. Other than that, it was very good.

  6. #96
    At 5 yards, you should have a goal of all in the 10 ring with .20 splits.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjWSnN-71H0

  7. #97
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    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Based on the the splits that you recorded, I find the accuracy displayed on both targets to be unacceptable at 5 yards. You wanted honesty, there it is. Pushing the speed would be completely pointless.

    Can you shoot a dot torture drill at 3 yards with no time limit and post a picture of the target?

    Can you shoot another dot torture target at 3 yards using the dots to simply shoot five shot groups, again with no time limit, and post a picture of it?

    ETA: here's a dot torture target
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 02-03-2020 at 12:11 AM.

  8. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    Based on the the splits that you recorded, I find the accuracy displayed on both targets to be unacceptable at 5 yards. You wanted honesty, there it is. Pushing the speed would be completely pointless.

    Can you shoot a dot torture drill at 3 yards with no time limit and post a picture of the target?

    Can you shoot another dot torture target at 3 yards using the dots to simply shoot five shot groups, again with no time limit, and post a picture of it?

    ETA: here's a dot torture target
    Thanks for the suggestion. I think a dot torture is a great idea and I think I can actually get that one done pretty soon, if I'm not on a time limit. I won't be able to do from a draw, so it would have to be from the low ready or something, though. I also might be forced to shoot it from 5 yards and not 3, would that be okay for you?

    I also am glad that you agree about the accuracy. :-)

  9. #99
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    Aug 2011
    Location
    Western Ohio
    Quote Originally Posted by arcfide View Post
    Thanks for the suggestion. I think a dot torture is a great idea and I think I can actually get that one done pretty soon, if I'm not on a time limit. I won't be able to do from a draw, so it would have to be from the low ready or something, though. I also might be forced to shoot it from 5 yards and not 3, would that be okay for you?

    I also am glad that you agree about the accuracy. :-)
    Replacing the draw with low ready is a common substitution out of necessity. I don't think it matters at this stage.

    I suggested 3 yards because that's where the drill begins. If you can't get closer than 5, that's ok too.

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