the .308 Ar question

[OlongJohnson]

To add to my previous comments...

I'm pretty sure @DocGKR has stated that 6.5CM has issues with feeding reliability in a semi- or full-auto application (heavy use, dirty in the field), but there were people sending a lot of .260 Rem rounds downrange really close together in time with good success.

Another factor in the "failure to launch" of the mid-frame AR platform is likely the drawn-out military program to procure a mid-size frame service rifle with a 6.8 projectile. There are other discussions on this site, but my recollection is that the performance requirements can't be met with a conventional brass cartridge with less than about 40 grains of powder. (I've expressed my skepticism about Sig's new Cross magic ammo beans in the thread on that.) So a reasonable person would expect that if that .mil program goes forward eventually, it will establish the standard, whatever that turns out to be. Until we get past that gateway and know what that template is going to be, the risk of developing something and going to market only to have it obsoleted by the production efficiency associated with the volume of the .mil selection is a too-predictable way to lose a lot of money, at least for most people who are spending their own money. Hence, you see innovative niche builders who are gonna innovate because that's what they do, and you see large companies where the management is placing bets with other peoples' money.

My prediction is that if the military does something sensible and there is a way for the template to pull on some civvies and go commercial, it will happen in a big way. And if they go F-35 with it, the mid-size frame service rifle will continue to wander in no man's land, waiting for Godot, while work gets done with ARs and bolt guns.

[secondstoryguy]

I've owned the Knights, LMT MWS, LWRC REPR and a put-together AR .308s. We are currently running a late production Larue OBRa as our issue precision rifles or to compliment our bolt guns. I've had good luck with the Knights and the LMT (like someone said above it's a poor man's Knights). The LWRC REPR was a piece of shit. The Larue's work for the most part but I've seen some of them that won't hold under 1.5" or have sporatic fliers every 10 rounds or so that makes them inconsistent for use as an LEO precision rifles. The Larue's we use operationally are 1" rifles and we shoot our precision rifle quals with them.

After jacking with .308 ARs for the last 8 or 10 years I've come to the following conclusions:

1. While they can approach the mechanical accuracy of a bolt gun they cannot beat the accuracy and high round count consistency that you can achieve with a bolt gun
2. .308 ARs generally require more "work" to shoot well, especially from unconventional positions (for me personally-I think they require more consistent follow through and are just less tolerant of shooter error than a bolt gun
3. Most are heavy when fully equipped (as a precision rifle it doesn't really matter but if your trying to use it as a hunting rifle/patrol rifle it can be a boat anchor)
4. They can be finicky when suppressed, more so I believe than their 5.56 cousins. Even the ones with adjustable gas blocks like the LWRC can be unreliable. Larue's have an adjustable gas system but per Larue they are designed to run only one or two brands/types of very specific suppressors...our issue Gemtech suppressors will not work on the Larues(which pisses me off). The Knights and the MWS were the most reliable ones suppressed that I owned.
5. Follow up shots are quick and the gas system seems to mitigate recoil
6. .308 ARs have their uses (they shine with situations involving multiple higher probability mid range targets) but don't push them into roles which they are not designed for
7. If you want a mil grade semi-auto .308 platform for general field use the SCAR is not a bad answer. If you have the cash I would rather have the Knights EMC carbine though.

[secondstoryguy]

You are on to something I think! One of the guys I work with has been shooting the the .300 HAMR out of a Wilson upper. Its very accurate and we did some barrier testing with it shooting through glass and some other stuff. It performed very well. It's like a super accurate 30-30 out of a AR platform.
I really dig it as a hunting round and could definitely see it being used as a shorter range LEO precision rifle solution (sometime the range of LEO precision rifle engagements are less than 30 yards).

I have a lot of experience with “large” frame AR’s.

I’ve owned:
DPMS G2 (don’t buy one)
Larue OBR
Wilson Combat
I’ve built 2 for myself

My current go to rifle for hogs, and deer under 200lbs is a Wilson Combat 300 HAMR. It’s lighter, less recoil, more accurate, and more reliable than any large frame AR I’ve owned. The Speer hot core works as advertised.

If I was going to purchase another large frame AR, I would buy a Wilson or a Barrett Rec 10 in 6.5 Creedmoor. Finding ammo for sale around you, [emoji2368], buy it online.

I’m firmly in the 6.5 camp, don’t own any 308’s anymore.

For the money your planning on spending on a quality large frame AR and your intended uses, I strongly suggest buying or building a 300 HAMR and ordering ammo online. I bought 500 rounds of Speer hot core from Wilson, shoots sub 1” all day with my 1-8 scope on it.


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[DocGKR]

Both 6.5 and .260 work well, but don't discount .308 with a 1/8 or faster twist barrel.

6.8 SPC still offers a lot of capability out to 300 or so in a lightweight, handy AR15 size package.

[LOKNLOD]

Both 6.5 and .260 work well, but don't discount .308 with a 1/8 or faster twist barrel.

6.8 SPC still offers a lot of capability out to 300 or so in a lightweight, handy AR15 size package.

Where does the good doctor's opinion fall on the 6.5 Grendel for a AR15-size gun for hunting or longer range usage?

[overton]

Both 6.5 and .260 work well, but don't discount .308 with a 1/8 or faster twist barrel.

6.8 SPC still offers a lot of capability out to 300 or so in a lightweight, handy AR15 size package.

Thank you for your advice! Are those fast twist barrels offered in a commercial Ar you recommend?
Which 6.8SPC commercial rifle should one look into.

[John Hearne]

The only direct experience I have is with the S&W MP-10 and the Troy offering. The Troy was heavy for it intended role - too much barrel for a heavy patrol rifle. The S&W with free float rail was pretty close to handy. Don't know if I'd trust the S&W as a high round count gun.

If I were buying today I'd look really hard at the Daniel Defense. They seem well engineered and are available in 6.5. I'm not convinced you need an 18" barrel with the 6.5 either. You could do all the work you needed to do with a 16" barrel and have a handier package. If I didn't want to spend a lot of money, the Springfield Saint offering can be found for around $1000. That's not a bad entry level rifle as BCM is reported to be involved. I'd love to see the Springfield in 6.5 Creedmore.

[ranger]

Where does the good doctor's opinion fall on the 6.5 Grendel for a AR15-size gun for hunting or longer range usage?

I am not Doc, but I have used a 6.5 Grendel AR hunting and target shooting. I killed an Antelope in Wyoming at about 250 yards with a 123 SST. I decided that i wanted a lighter and more powerful hunting rifle so I moved to a Kimber Montana 280AI. I converted that 20 inch upper 6.5 Grendel into a target rifle with a heavy free float hand guard. Magpul PRS stock, and high magnification scope - currently a Vortex Viper PST Gen 1 6-24x50. That 6.5G shoots very well to 800 yards with my Nosler 123 Custom Competitions - it will go to 1000 but it really shines at 800 and less.

[ranger]

I really like the 6.8SPC. For a commercial rifle, I would try Barrett. I have built several 6.8 uppers with ARP barrels. Here is my "do-all" 14.5 6.8SPC (pinned to 16).

[zeleny]

I like steel guns, because reasons. Here is my sub-MOA build:



This Turnbull TAR-40 DPMS pattern rifle, serial number TAR40-019, has its barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, and buffer furnished by JP Rifles, with a trigger by Geissele, a Radian Raptor charging handle, an Ace stock, and a Hammerhead pseudo-grip; topped with a U.S. Optics MST-100 scope in steel Badger Ordnance rings on a tall Picatinny rail, with a Trijicon RMR red dot sight for backup (not shown). I am having JP Rifles rebuild me another TAR-40 with a light contour barrel and an Aimpoint Micro T-2 backed up by folding iron sights.