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Thread: .357 140 grain xtp data

  1. #11
    Site Supporter 03RN's Avatar
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    9 grains shot well. Felt good. Warm but i still felt like i could shoot and control it well.

  2. #12
    Modern manuals can be very conservative.
    If you understand excess pressure signs.......
    Just sayin, far be it from me to induce anyone to blow up a modern material cnc built gun using loads that were common place in guns made from state of the art steel on manual machines in the 1930's/40's.
    But the people who print manuals are pretty scared these days in .357 land.
    Last edited by JTMcC; 01-01-2020 at 05:45 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JTMcC View Post
    Modern manuals can be very conservative.
    If you understand excess pressure signs.......
    Just sayin, far be it from me to induce anyone to blow up a modern material cnc built gun using loads that were common place in guns made from state of the art steel on manual machines in the 1930's/40's.
    But the people who print manuals are pretty scared these days in .357 land.
    The 357 has effectively been neutered so K Frames could live longer, and so that we can have things like 357 J frame sized guns with a longer life expectancy. I buy heavier built guns, like Rugers & 686s for 357. I do have a stainless 357 J frame, but its limited to a diet of 38 Spl +P.

  4. #14
    Old man yelling at cloud OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    It's also the case that modern measurement methods have improved the quality of data that load manuals are based on. There were plenty of loads in the old days that were actually over pressure, just people didn't know it.

    Pressure signs will tell you that you are over pressure, but you can still be over pressure without pressure signs. The only real way to know is to have instrumentation and measure. The rest of us just live within the bounds of manufacturer-vetted data and hope it's good in our gun.

    Flame cutting is also a thing. It doesn't really matter how strong the action is built, it's still steel and still erodes.
    Last edited by OlongJohnson; 01-03-2020 at 09:28 PM.
    .
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    Not another dime.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by 358156hp View Post
    The 357 has effectively been neutered so K Frames could live longer, and so that we can have things like 357 J frame sized guns with a longer life expectancy. I buy heavier built guns, like Rugers & 686s for 357. I do have a stainless 357 J frame, but its limited to a diet of 38 Spl +P.
    You can make that arguement and it's probably valid but there are tens of thousands of old guns out there in unknown condition and that might be a factor as well.
    For whatever reason, .357 data is very conservative these days, and of course we live in a society that loves to call a lawyer.

  6. #16

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    It's also the case that modern measurement methods have improved the quality of data that load manuals are based on. There were plenty of loads in the old days that were actually over pressure, just people didn't know it.

    Pressure signs will tell you that you are over pressure, but you can still be over pressure without pressure signs. The only real way to know is to have instrumentation and measure. The rest of us just live within the bounds of manufacturer-vetted data and hope it's good in our gun.

    Flame cutting is also a thing. It doesn't really matter how strong the action is built, it's still steel and still erodes.
    What loads? Where can we find this data?

    .357 in sound strong guns has a lot more potential available than the modern manuals list.
    Some people are interested in exploring that, most people probably should not and have no need to.
    Elmer and his buddy's started the hooliganism.
    Me & a few friends lived in the outer limits of .357 land for several years and never damaged a Blackhawk (duh), an L-frame or a Redhawk.
    A lot of cases went in the trash, and my L-frame & the Redhawks eventually showed accelerated wear (at a very high round count) at the bearing points. I think it's very very very hard to show wear on a Ruger single action.
    Some people are easily entertained. It really serves no practical purpose.

    I don't blame ammo companies or manual writers a bit, they are just playing it safe.

  7. #17
    I've been deeply invested in .357 for about a year and a half now, and have handloaded a couple thousand rounds. The issue of "old data" and new "watered down" data, comes up continually.

    What it comes down to for me is this: I can make a 158 grain bullet go 1200 FPS from a 4" revolver and, 1750 FPS from a 18.5" carbine. That's enough. Eking out another one or two hundred fps isn't going to gain me much.

    One thing I've found over the years is that rhino roller level data tends to increase the amount of recoil, blast, and wear on the gun disproportionate to the amount of ballistic advantage it provides.

    Resources forward thinking is "How fast can I make a 357 go?"

    Goals backwards thinking is "Does a 158 at 1200 and 1750 satisfy my needs for what I want out of the cartridge." That answer is yes.

    I've become very much a goals backwards thinker in the last decade or so when it comes to firearms.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter 03RN's Avatar
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    Im just looking to get a 140gr bullet at that same 1200

  9. #19
    Site Supporter 03RN's Avatar
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    Id rather use factory 145 silvertips but i think 140xtp at 1250 is as good. Me trying to pigeon hole unique is just me being cheap. Not to mention that itll keep the bullets inside their design envelope in my 20" m92

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    I've been deeply invested in .357 for about a year and a half now, and have handloaded a couple thousand rounds. The issue of "old data" and new "watered down" data, comes up continually.

    What it comes down to for me is this: I can make a 158 grain bullet go 1200 FPS from a 4" revolver and, 1750 FPS from a 18.5" carbine. That's enough. Eking out another one or two hundred fps isn't going to gain me much.

    One thing I've found over the years is that rhino roller level data tends to increase the amount of recoil, blast, and wear on the gun disproportionate to the amount of ballistic advantage it provides.

    Resources forward thinking is "How fast can I make a 357 go?"

    Goals backwards thinking is "Does a 158 at 1200 and 1750 satisfy my needs for what I want out of the cartridge." That answer is yes.

    I've become very much a goals backwards thinker in the last decade or so when it comes to firearms.
    Knocking over chunks of steel, on base plates is an interesting pastime for some people, a life goal for others
    Everybody needs a hobby.
    I read a ton of heavy .357 info from people who've never done any work in that area but that's just the internet. You don't have to have experience, just read and regurgitate as if you actually loaded cases yourself.

    I understand your stance, I'm perfectly happy in .44 Remington Mag land to launch 240's at 1200 and 300's at 1150 and don't feel the need for more in my use. That's boring to some but suits my need nicely. I have friends with big Rugers that live to drive 340's as hard as they can.

    That hasn't kept me from exploring for entertainment, the upper limits of 45-70 brass in a single shot, or the limits of .357 in multiple revolvers. Or seeing just how fast I can drive a bullet out of a .220 Swift. While having no practical need to do any of those fun things.
    It's cheaper than buying a boat or vacationing in Paris, and I can shoot off my back porch so there's that.

    But the myths that are repeated on the web? they are just annoying. And some people believe everything they read.

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