FMJ Effectiveness in Different Calibers?

[Hambo]

No Chinese communist ever died from being hit with a round from an M1 carbine. They died from freezing to death or blood lose because all of the stretcher bearers were also being hit with the same bullets.

Moral of the story is this. They all fall to ball sooner or later, especially in North Dakota in the winter.

This isn't based on any studies, just war stories I heard in a bar in N Dakota, or was it Montana. I can't remember.

Did they start with, "Now this is no shit..."? I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I wouldn't trust wound ballistic stories gleaned from a bar.

[HCM]

Well gee wiz. I was a Gunsite instructor too. That and $2.50 will get me a cup of coffee most places. I just have a great deal of respect for those who have gone before me and some of my contemporaries. I don't find them a "waste of time".

Dave

I have an interest in historical information, some of it is solid, an example being sunlights effect on iron sight shooting at distance, some of it is horse shit like point shooting, and some of of it worked but not for the reasons contemporary writers thought it worked.

A classic example of this is the legend of .45 FMJ. It produced better real world results than many of its contemporaries but not because .the terminal ballistics of 45 FMJ are so superior to 9mm FMJ. Rather, compared to other guns of that era, the 1911, the primary platform for 45 FMJ, is more “shootable” than its contemporaries, especially under stress. That ”shootability” translates into better shot placement translates into better real world results. In other words they all fall to hardball should really be they all fall to better hits as enabled by the 1911.

[Borderland]

Did they start with, "Now this is no shit..."? I can't tell if you're serious or not, but I wouldn't trust wound ballistic stories gleaned from a bar.

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

[BehindBlueI's]

I think this one has ran it's course.

[DocGKR]

I would not discount all wound ballistic studies done before 2000--there are some quite relevant ones still extant.

"I don't think I know enough to say how much shattering you get, but .380 will break a femur. The differences lie primarily in how easily the round nose profile is deflected and how they deal with intermediate barriers. The bulk FMJ isn't bonded and sheds it's jacket. Higher velocity smaller bullets fragment easier. The .45 Auto will still shed it's jacket but, even if it fragments, the lead core is still heavier then a 115gr 9mm when it started. Something hard cast or "premium" that is designed to not fragment in intermediate barriers/bone strikes etc. would probably fare better."

Concur with the above.

Pine boards are not bone. Dr. Lane did a study for the FBI in the early 1990's (oh....that is before 2000), which compared 9mm 115 gr and 147 gr JHP with .45 Auto 230 gr JHP--the .45 Auto created greater bone damage and were more likely to punch through the swine femurs than the 9mm's. IIRC, no 9mm shots were deflected by ribs during the 1986 FBI incident in Miami. Lot's of handgun projectiles of all calibers, including .45 Auto, have deflected off various maxillofacial and cranial bony structures and failed to penetrate into the cranial vault during actual shooting incidents. There is no good way to quantify bone, due to varying sizes, shapes, and densities of living bone, as well as variations in striking angles. Bullets that fare well against automobile windshield intermediate barriers, generally tend do better against bone than those that fail windshield testing.

There does seem to be a bit of an advantage with the larger service caliber, heavier rounds against glass, but not so much that I would worry about it (obviously so, since I use a G19 w/147gr JHP). An article in the IWBA Journal (woops, another article done before 2000) regarding deflection testing conducted at the CHP Academy was written: MacPherson D and Fincel E: "Windshield Glass Penetration", Wound Ballistic Review; 2(4):35-39, 1996. The salient point is, "This deflection angle is not consistent in magnitude or orientation relative to incidence geometry; it seems to be essentially random." Also of note is that penetration of 5 mm auto windshields reduces service handgun projectile velocity by 150-200 fps, while 6 mm windshields drop it down an additional 30%. Deflection angle is relatively small with .40 S&W 180 gr JHP and .45 Auto 230 gr JHP and due to the random nature cannot be compensated for, thus the authors recommend not worrying about the issue and just shooting normally.

If you really need to shoot through bone, use at least a .44 Magnum or better yet, a center-fire rifle cartridge or 12 ga Brenneke slug...