Should I turn a Kimber Custom into an ICQB clone? And how?

[RAM Engineer]

Back in the mid/late nineties when Kimber was more we’ll thought of, my father and I each picked up a Custom. Mine was eventually stolen in a home burglary. When my dad passed away 3 years ago, I inherited his. It’s bone stock. I’m toying with the idea of turning it into an ICQB (Det-1) clone. I will probably pass on the Dawson rail.

1. Should I?
2. What will be required? New grip and thumb safeties, Novaks, Gunner Grips, lanyard loop. Anything else? Parkerized finish?
3. Who would be a good smith to do this work?

Thanks,
Jason

[GardoneVT]

Back in the mid/late nineties when Kimber was more we’ll thought of, my father and I each picked up a Custom. Mine was eventually stolen in a home burglary. When my dad passed away 3 years ago, I inherited his. It’s bone stock. I’m toying with the idea of turning it into an ICQB (Det-1) clone. I will probably pass on the Dawson rail.

1. Should I?
2. What will be required? New grip and thumb safeties, Novaks, Gunner Grips, lanyard loop. Anything else? Parkerized finish?
3. Who would be a good smith to do this work?

Thanks,
Jason

As I understand the history, the USMC Det-1 guns were LAPD-spec TLEs with Dawson aftermarket rails and USMC serial #s, period. No other special stuff was done to the guns as they needed a fast turnaround.
Kimbers Warrior 1911 is basically the civil equivalent, so besides converting it to Seires 70 internally and installing Novak sights I cant think of what else to change.

IMO, this calls for an original build. Its probably best to consult with a shop like Wilson Combat or similar and truly make a custom build for what YOU want.

[Bergeron]

Do it. I recently experienced a similar situation. Please accept my condolences.

Do whatever it is to the gun that will cause you to use it more.

I’d say that Step 3 will inform Step 2. Dave Sams does MEU-SOC clones, so I would think he’d know what an ICQB gun would be like.

[M2CattleCo]

Novaks and a set of military brown Gunners.

[theJanitor]

90’s Kimber make great customs. Go for whatever config makes the pistol more usable/likable to you. My first custom commission was on a Kimber

As cool as Clone pistols go, none really tickle me. We know that they were never built to be pretty, and I can’t pay custom money to purposely make guns look ugly. But that’s just me.

[LittleLebowski]

I want some gunners...

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...prod55130.aspx

[Duelist]

I want some gunners...

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...prod55130.aspx

If I ever get a 1911, I’ll probably want some...

[vcdgrips]

I thought that at least some of the DET 1 guns had both the stock rubber Kimber grips and Pacs such as these?

https://www.brownells.com/handgun-pa...765-25188.aspx

At any rate, it is your party. Trick it out and take a class or 3 with it.

Blessings to you.

DB

[JSGlock34]

Back in the mid/late nineties when Kimber was more we’ll thought of, my father and I each picked up a Custom. Mine was eventually stolen in a home burglary. When my dad passed away 3 years ago, I inherited his. It’s bone stock. I’m toying with the idea of turning it into an ICQB (Det-1) clone. I will probably pass on the Dawson rail.

1. Should I?
2. What will be required? New grip and thumb safeties, Novaks, Gunner Grips, lanyard loop. Anything else? Parkerized finish?
3. Who would be a good smith to do this work?

Thanks,
Jason

I'm more a fan of the MEUSOC builds, but the ICQB is a neat piece of military 1911 history. The Det-1 pistols were built on Kimber Custom pistols; these were Series 70 type guns that lacked the Swartz type firing pin safety instituted in later Kimber designs like the Custom II. These were not TLEs, which have a 30LPI front strap (the Custom pistols had a smooth front strap and were issued as such), but LAPD SWAT's adoption of the TLE likely influenced the USMC to consider a Kimber solution to the lack of sufficient MEUSOC pistols to equip the Det. The Warrior was Kimber's attempt to tie their marketing into the lineage of this pistol, but it differs significantly from the ICQB (particularly in the use of the railed frame).

The best sources for technical information on the ICQB the I have found are the December 2003 article in SWAT by Pat Rogers and the brief but comprehensive page and a half dedicated to the ICQB in Edward Scott Meadow's rare US Military Automatic Pistols Volume III (1945-2012). Page 147 of the latter includes a great "before and after" picture of the base Kimber, parts, and the resulting assembled ICQB. There is also some great information on DET-1 in general, to include the procurement of the ICQB, in DET ONE: U.S. MARINE CORPS, U.S. SPECIAL OPERATIONS COMMAND DETACHMENT, 2003-2006. This history also touches on the involvement of Pat Rogers and Larry Vickers in the training of the Detachment. Unsurprisingly considering this personal tie, the Vickers Guide: 1911 has great ICQB photos.



The Dawson rail is the most difficult to source part (and you have already said you'd leave the Dawson out of the build). The ICQB used Novak night sights, a GI length guide rod, a lanyard loop mainspring housing, Simonich "Gunner" grips in Coyote, and Wilson 47 (7 round) magazines. The only other part to mention is the Ed Brown memory groove grip safety which was common to the USMC M45/MEUSOC pistols. I have seen photographs of ICQB pistols both with the Kimber part and retrofitted with the Ed Brown unit. Below depicts the Ed Brown build.



Here's the ICQB requirements from the Rogers article

•Modified 1911 pistol.
•No requirement for a suppressor.
•Series 1 pistol. No passive safety is required.
•The slide has front and rear serrations.
•Rear sights are Novak Lo Mount.
•Front sight is dovetailed—sights have tritium inserts.
•Standard length guide rod.
•Sights set for M1911 Ball at twenty-five yards.
•The magazine well is beveled.
•Flat Mainspring housing with lanyard loop.
•High beavertail safety with memory pad.
•Ambidextrous thumb safety.
•Standard magazine release.
•Pachmayr GM-45CS grips. (Note that this has been superseded. The guns will be fitted with the Gunner Grips provided by Rob Simonitch/Strider Knives, in coyote brown.)
•Exterior is manganese phosphate in accordance with MIL-STD-171.
•Threshold requirement that a seven-shot group will not exceed four inches at twenty-five yards with M1911 ball.
•Trigger will be free of creep and 5 lbs. +/- 1 lb.
•The pistol will withstand the firing of 50,000 rounds without overhaul.
•Markings will conform to MIL-STD 130, Identification of U.S. Property.
•The serial numbers will be unique to the Det.

Other than installing the sights, I'm not sure there's any real need for a smith. I imagine Novaks can install their sights. I'm not sure I'd bother with the Ed Brown safety considering it appears that some were issued with the original Kimber grip safety, such as below.

[BillSWPA]

The earlier Kimbers had the best designed grip safety I have seen. I suggest leaving the grip safety as is.



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