Person of the year

[Jim Watson]

Sounds like several of the regulars are conceding Ameicanogenic Climate Disruption and are just criticizing the heavy handed Defenders of the Faith.

[cheby]

We can solve this. Scientists and engineers are clever.

Not sure about that at all. The climate thing has become a religion. It is impossible to actually have a scientific discussion about it anywhere in America, especially in the scientific community because if you deviate from the party line you will lose the grants, promotion, and ultimately your job regardless of the tenure status.

[GardoneVT]

Setting aside the utopian feel-good science stuff, the pragmatic fact is the world runs on money. Not good feelings or an over abiding concern for the far future of Humanity.

Unless you can achieve the utopian ideal of greater ecological awareness while also increasing real world economic productivity, it’s not gonna happen.

So the discussion of “we should do X or Y to improve ecological sustainability” is an intellectual circle jerk. Until someone collectively shows us the money it’s a dead end discussion. Hypocrites don’t help things.

[Joe in PNG]

This entire thing reminds me of Al Gore's environmental crusade.

He lives in a 10,000 SF house and uses 20 times more energy than the average homeowner in the US.

I guess he thinks everyone's stupid.

"Nomenklatura". Some animals are more equal than others.

The whole thing is just a scam to give a small group of people power.

Remember how the Soviets pretended to be all for "The Workers", and once they got power, proceeded to treat workers far, far worse than the bourgeois they replaced?
It's pretty much the exact same scam, but with workers crossed out and environment scribbled in.

[Trigger]

I miss the days when someone would say "Swedish girl" and I would think...

Attachment 45844

Stole that picture. I like it. Just like I’m a fan of the Swedish Bikini Team.

[Trigger]

Setting aside the utopian feel-good science stuff, the pragmatic fact is the world runs on money. Not good feelings or an over abiding concern for the far future of Humanity.

Unless you can achieve the utopian ideal of greater ecological awareness while also increasing real world economic productivity, it’s not gonna happen.

So the discussion of “we should do X or Y to improve ecological sustainability” is an intellectual circle jerk. Until someone collectively shows us the money it’s a dead end discussion. Hypocrites don’t help things.

Agree with you, but.

Half the US responds to emotional arguments, and the other half responds to fact-based (rational) arguments. Your words only appeal to half the people. And I also agree that your words above are difficult to convey that way.

[Borderland]

I think we've historically been down this road before. Millions died in wars, plagues and famines. For the most part the population of the planet has increased to the point where it's now unsustainable. I don't doubt that we are seeing climate change at an increased rate. It's getting warmer where I live and that affects a lot of things. The ocean is warmer and that affects food fish like cod. The Alaska fishery is closed due to low numbers in part due to warmer water temps.

Climate change is going to kill a lot of people simply because their regular food source won't be there in the future. The money thing then becomes a critical factor in how many people will have enough food to survive. The US isn't going to have a problem but countries like India will.

I'm looking at this more like a natural disaster on a large scale. Some believe it's avoidable but I don't think it is. It takes huge sums of money to change just a small part of the cause of climate change. The only real way to stop climate change is get rid of half the earth's population, about 3 billion people. That was the population about 60 years ago. It's now double that. Jeesus, no wonder we have climate change. We just don't have enough wars, plagues and famines anymore.

I know that's a pretty callous attitude but I can't really see it happening any other way. The coming famine will be yuge.

[JAD]

. For the most part the population of the planet has increased to the point where it's now unsustainable..

Remember peak oil? Big Jared Diamond fan?

[TGS]

I know that's a pretty callous attitude but I can't really see it happening any other way. The coming famine will be yuge.

Eh. It's not really callous.

It's not entirely realistic though. There's always the potential for nature to correct our course, but in terms of simply overwhelming our food supply it's not a huge issue as we can already grow food from algae. Probably won't be long before we perfect it for mass production, and India, China and Indonesia will be all over that to ensure their population remains an endless pool of near-free labor.

[-ad-]

I follow an Aussie couple's YouTube sailing a liveaboard catamaran. They seem like some nice folks and have some interesting perspectives. I happened to flip over to their i-gram channel and.... Guess whose smiling face was a guest on the boat.

You're talking about the Vagabonde I'm assuming. Yes - I've watched a few of their sailing video's as well. I guess the opportunity for publicity and exposure to their youtube feed would have been a pretty strong incentive.

I don't know much about the kid but I actually in a way feel for her. She's being used, and only encouraged to be single minded, and probably sheltered from any opposing argument that would help her reconsider her attitude. I'm not excusing her of her own poor decisions - but I know that others are more to blame than her.

I had a brief subscription to TIME many years ago. Found it wasn't for me back then - suspect it's still the same now. Does anyone know what TIME said the reason was behind them selecting her for person of the year over others.