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Thread: What makes a Glock so shootable

  1. #21
    I think @GJM is correct. The grip angle is a plus. (The 'Glocks point high' idea goes away after enough practice, and then you can say '1911s point low.)

    Matt Burkett does a demo with you holding a rod or 2x2 a couple of feet long. With you holding the rod in your hand with it perpendicular to your forearm, he can grab on end and easily manipulate it. Then you add a cant to your wrist, and it immediately becomes harder for Matt to manipulate the rod. It's biomechanics.

    The point of the demo is to show why you should cant your support hand (fingers pointed down roughly 45° when fingers are extended, rather than to the horizon.) But it stands to reason that if canting is good for the support hand it's also good for the strong hand.
    Last edited by BigD; 12-11-2019 at 06:56 AM.

  2. #22
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robinson View Post
    I'm mostly a 1911 shooter, but I've always liked the Glock grip angle. It's probably the thing I like most about Glocks, aside from their (mostly) robust utility.
    Me too. I really don't find a conflict with the two. BTW one of the best illustrations and explanations of GJM's point about using the grip angle and wrist leverage with a Glock was @Surf 's youtube video of some years back focused on this aspect specifically. I don't think that vid is available anymore.
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  3. #23
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    I think GJM's question, given the information in the OP, could be re-arranged to be: How is the Glock platform so prevalent for so many, including top-tier shooters?

    Yes its shootability.

    But think there are some "statistics" here, if you will. The design is the "80% solution" for everything and everyone. It doesn't do anything poorly, in other words. And it does this for many different people and their hand sizes and shapes.

    The platform has the shortest learning curve. The corollary here is that with a shorter learning curve there is a shorter learning curve for all other tiers of shooters trying to accomplish their goals.

    The simple trigger is predictable, durable, reliable. Its design isn't bulls eye quality yet when shooting at speed it's characteristics allow for fast shot placement.

    The ergonomics allow for steady and consistent handling under high stress conditions--again allowing for consistently high performance at speed.

  4. #24
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    Big Glock fan across decades. As Mr. White has noted, get it set up simple and one can forget about everything but developing software.

    @GJM - did I not see a post just very recently - possibly in the long STI thread, where a USPSA competitor observed that the prevalence of G34s at higher levels of the sport is declining distinctly vs a few other competition oriented striker guns and the Euro steel guns? If that is so what does that suggest?

    Again, GJM, you have previously observed correctly in my view that the Glock is pretty easy for getting a shooter up to good performance but fairly challenging to get to high levels of excellence. Do you think that is still a valid observation?

    Isn't that mostly attributed to factors around the grip and trigger that leads to hits creeping left with near any mistake?

    Finger grooves - boom. Yep, never have complained about them ever. My G45 and 19X shooting got me to thinking I prefer the grooves albeit I really only see that manifest for tighter shots at greater ranges and I can't really tell if its locking in the grip with the grooves or trigger characteristics. @Chuck Haggard I remember.

    I've introduced a three small handed females in my family to running a pistol and each of them has been able to turn in very nice new shooter performance quickly with Gen 3 and Gen 4 G19s so I don't think they can be bad in shootability.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  5. #25
    The grip angle may be the least of the problems for some shooters. The thick, square backstrap and trigger reach combine for a situation where some shooters like me have to do the Glock reach-around. Reach-around to the trigger, reach-around to the mag release... Not an ideal grip for pushing the limits.

    (Truth be known, my wrist doesn't really like to bend that way anymore anyways)

    The Glock is still easy to be proficient with, but maybe not always optimum for pushing the edge of your performance. That of course, being viewed from the paradigm of a short-fingered individual.
    Last edited by cornstalker; 12-11-2019 at 08:17 AM.

  6. #26
    Site Supporter ccmdfd's Avatar
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    You certainly may be on to something regarding grip tension.

    Back in the 90's I hung out with a club of IDPA shooters who used P7's. They often felt that one of the things which make the P7 shoot so well is the fact that the squeeze cocker forces you to use appropriate grip tension.

    Of course that's all theory on their part.

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  7. #27
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    In my experience, I’ve always done best with whatever platform I’ve had the most experience and trigger time with at the time. I think Glocks are good enough to where they functionally aren’t holding the shooter back in terms of practical shooting so long as they’ve put the requisite time in to do well with it.

    Individual skill is, IMHO, far and away the deciding factor. The hardware is merely the vehicle with which to get there. A Glock can certainly be taken to the highest levels of performance as we’ve seen. I do think, however, the reason why you see fewer Glocks at the top than CZs/Tanfos and 1911/2011s is because Glocks can make it a bit more DIFFICULT to be more CONSISTENT with.

    What I mean by that is, if you’re having an “on” day with regards to properly executing the fundamentals, the Glock isn’t going to be any more of a deciding factor than any other platform. If you’re having an “off” day, I’ve found other platforms are more forgiving in terms of smoothing out those “lower than some of the other lows” while actually shooting.

    Again, that’s my opinion, but it’s a trend that I experience personally as I continue my journey.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post


    @GJM - did I not see a post just very recently - possibly in the long STI thread, where a USPSA competitor observed that the prevalence of G34s at higher levels of the sport is declining distinctly vs a few other competition oriented striker guns and the Euro steel guns? If that is so what does that suggest?
    Most of those guns are taking Glock's market share because of considerable out of box weight advantage, much better triggers, from factory or through aftermarket, and, in some instances, better accuracy. I don't think that they are gaining because of their superior ergonomic design that may be lending to better results, except in those cases where a person just doesn't like Glocks. Plus, as I had already mentioned in post # 16, a number of those guns set their grips in such a way that the ulnar deviation (medical for wrist angle) is similar to Glock's.

    One of those guys who's currently on top of the competition pyramid and has only shot metal guns in his formal career said that it were not the USPSA where Glocks were disadvantaged. I took it as he could've been fine with a Glock in USPSA if he hadn't been shooting IPSC too.


    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post


    Again, GJM, you have previously observed correctly in my view that the Glock is pretty easy for getting a shooter up to good performance but fairly challenging to get to high levels of excellence. Do you think that is still a valid observation?
    I think that's true, and I think that somebody has already alluded to a reason. High levels of performance are nearly synonymous with "consistency". At a normal level of shooter's performance Glock vs non-Glock is a non-issue. You just don't get nearly as wide margin of error with a Glock (or any lightweight gun) if you fuck up your grip. Same goes for trigger press that's much easier to screw up with a Glock.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter JRV's Avatar
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    Chiming in for a brief counterpoint: within reason, grip angle and bore axis have little to do with shootability or recoil control, so long as they are within reason. Grip technique (strength/consistency) and an appropriate relationship between the “hotness” of the ammo and recoil/main springs allow pretty much any pistol to achieve a properly-timed recoil stroke.

    As a matter of personal opinion, Glock ergos are terrible, especially on the 19 and 26 frames. I have a very high support hand grip, which, with a Glock, forces an unnaturally-extreme cant on my wrists. There are two reasons why it doesn’t work for me:

    (1) It disrupts my ability to crush the gun. Make a fist with your wrist straight, and squeeze as tight as you can. Try to keep the same tension in the first while rolling the wrist forward. With my left hand, the forearm engagement needed to roll my wrist weakens the squeezing force in my fist, especially across the index and middle fingers.

    (2) Rolling my wrist to the extent required forces my elbows up and out, which forces my shoulders up, which engages my delts and traps unnecessarily. It causes a lot of tightness in my shooting, which is fatiguing and makes fast transitions more difficult.

    It looks like that’s not everyone’s experience, which is cool. There are guns for everyone.
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  10. #30
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    I concur that nothing controls recoil better than the Glock grip angle - Gaston was on to something there. I totally disagree that that equals "equivalent shootability" to other platforms, at least for me. I have a number of injuries to my support hand and wrist, so I can't take advantage of that grip angle to get the aggressive forward break that is optimal for control with the Glock. I can attest that, after not having even touched one for nearly four years, my first trip to the range with a 5" all steel 1911 in .45 resulted in significantly better accuracy, and minimal loss of speed on timed drills (less, of course, the need to reload a lot more!).

    I'm still carrying my G19 as my primary duty gun, mostly for capacity reasons, given the recent spate of active shooters on Navy bases. But, when the Staccato C2 and/or DWX compact hit the market, I might finally have my "Glock Killer"

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