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Thread: Boring vs sexy hardware, a rant

  1. #1

    Boring vs sexy hardware, a rant

    Iím frustrated and I want to see if this resonates.

    Guns are tools that make holes.

    As a pure civilian, I either use them for entertainment making holes in targets, for self defense making holes in attackers until they stop, or hunting, making holes in yummy animals.

    In all three of those contexts the predominant factor in success is holes accurately placed enough. All three have time constraints on them in most cases. Self defense and hunting can have legal constraints on them in the case of misses, in worst case scenarios. Self defense can have lethal consequences for slowness or too many misses.

    Thereís legal liability for the simple act of carrying a concealed pistol so anything less than 100% reliability of the pistol and chosen ammunition is unacceptable. Otherwise just forego the license and go hide a 2lb steel hammer in your pants.

    In the context of self defense and hunting the ammunition penetration depth and behavior around barriers/bone should match the projected situation. The bullet needs to go far enough into the animal that needs stopping while hopefully not exiting the other side, or at least with such little energy that it canít risk the health of any other nearby animals.

    Self defense - 9mm. Glock, M&P, Beretta, HK, Sig. 500-2000rds through, vetting it and the mags. 124+P or 147 HST, Gold Dot, G2, Ranger T, 135+P Critical Duty. Holster and belt so youíll ACTUALLY carry it all the time youíre off your property.


    Hunting - 308 or 6.5CM Tikka with bonded ammo of suitable grain/velocity for the size of animal and distance of shots. Season with your optic and sling of choice and learn its bullet drops at range.


    Anything past that, for hardware, is completely frivolous IN THE PURPOSE OF DEVELOPING FASTER ACCURACY.

    Big boys like big boy toys I get that. 10mm hand cannons sure - why didnít you bring a rifle?

    Hating on a 22 Glock trainer? Are you telling me you canít get faster or more accurate with your index finger and grip? Are you telling me that the practice cost falling by 2-4x wonít get you more practice for that index finger and grip?

    If you wanna run a $2-3k concealed 45, would you shoot better if you trained with 4x more 9mm from a Glock or 16x more 22?

    Same for a 2-3k carbon fiber stocked hunting rifle and cartridges that arenít 308, 30-06, 6.5CM, 270 etc.

    At the end of the day, thereís enough of a body of evidence in firearms design and ammunition capabilities that we know what selections make holes with near 100% reliability and accuracy which surpass the shooter operating them. Meaning the restriction on the system is now the trigger puller. Hence the focus should be on improving the trigger puller. More expensive pistols and rifles and calibers donít cause improvement.

    Hating on the most budget guns and ammo to properly train the trigger puller, because itís not sexy, is fucking stupid. If we were purely pragmatic weíd hate on the expensive gear and those who tout its advantages while training less than they could.

    Tell me if Iím full of shit.

  2. #2
    Irony Connoisseur Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Aug 2013
    Youíre not full of shit, but if you donít like revolvers in various shapes and sizes (and, given the thrust of your post, *especially* 5-shot compacts with proven ammo), then you donít like America. Fact.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
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    Feb 2011
    Dayton, OH
    Yes, we would all shoot glocks, have plastic stock tikkas, own colt 6920s, and remington 870Ps if we ONLY wanted what was MOST practical. BUT:
    Last edited by rjohnson4405; 12-10-2019 at 01:48 PM.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter
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    Jul 2016
    Away, away, away, down.......
    Youíre frustrated at human nature, itís a waste of time.

    For example, knives are for cutting or making holes in things or even people. All they really need are a decent handle and a sharp blade. But for over 500 years in Europe it was popular that your knife handle be shaped like a phallus, because who doesnít like a penis joke.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by rjohnson4405 View Post
    Yes, we would all shoot glocks, have plastic stock tikkas, own colt 6920s, and remington 870Ps if we ONLY wanted what was MOST practical. BUT:
    Exactly. Itís not all about practicality. People have emotional attachments to their tools and weapons. Thereís a longstanding tradition of weapons sometimes being practical art. Weíre invested in our collections, both financially and emotionally. If what it takes someone to be enthusiastic about shooting and training is a $4000 1911, then good for them.

    I have some guns that are entirely practical such as my redundant G19s (primary carry gun, training gun, and backup/spare) and my primary AR. Most of my training and practice time goes into those guns. However, I also have an LTT Elite Beretta 92 because I like Beretta 92s. I have a Steyr AUG because I think theyíre awesome. Iím excited about the newly imported HK SP5 because Iíve loved MP5s since I was growing up watching 80s action movies. Periodically, I like to take some of the fun guns out and turn some money into noise and smiles.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  6. #6
    one foot in the gulag blues's Avatar
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    Aug 2016
    down in the holler
    Life's short. Follow your muse.

    (As long as you can afford to. practical and responsible.)
    These are the times that try men's souls. - Thomas Paine

  7. #7
    Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Mar 2015
    Have you seen power tools these days? Tools aren't just tools any longer.
    Interested in a PF hat? Take the survey here:

    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  8. #8
    Accused M&P Cultist Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Papua New Guinea; formerly Florida
    Part of the fun in life is being able to blow off boring but practical in favor of sexy & cool.

    I really don't need a motorcycle or sushi or a 1911 or a lot of other items- but I want them.
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI

  9. #9
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    North Georgia
    Quote Originally Posted by STI View Post
    If you wanna run a $2-3k concealed 45, would you shoot better if you trained with 4x more 9mm from a Glock or 16x more 22?
    I don't think so, not in my experience. I just pulled my logs. Since 2010 I've shot ~98K rounds.

    ~89,250 through Glocks, almost all of it 9mm.

    ~8,750 of .45 through 1911s: Sams Custom, TRP, LB Operator and most recently, CQB.

    I am a big devotee of assessment speed hits. Yeah I can burn a square range drill like F2S @ 7 yards a few tenths faster with a 19X. But that's going flat out and knowing I'm shooting the F2S full tilt. The hits will not consistently be as dead nuts perfect as with the 1911 however.

    Hits are just more consistently great with God's gun. If I muff the grip drawing the Glock I can expect a C or D hit and its hard to recover. I've consistently seen muffed 1911 master grips hit an alpha or close C (my intended targets are almost always a reduced alpha). A function of a heavy gun and trigger to die for.

    Then, if we go to tight shots, real precision as the ranges stretch out, its high end 1911 in a runaway. If I go to a hunting shot out at distance with just a few seconds to make the shot same thing.

    Just better hits with far less volume of shooting them. I did shoot service grade Colt 1911s a lot in the '80's but from the 90's til deep into the 2000's I went ~20 years shooting Glocks almost exclusively. So much so that I came to suck shooting a 1911 on the rare occasion.

    I love my Glocks and don't feel in danger carrying one. Shoot them pretty strong still.

    But I'm carrying my CQB mostly now that I landed it.

    You shouldn't care at all about any of that either.

    And I just fookin' love nice 1911s.
    Last edited by JHC; 12-10-2019 at 02:32 PM.
    "I realized all the mindset talk was useless without action and that with action, all the mindset talk was unnecessary." - Mike Pannone

  10. #10
    Why does this frustrate you? Who gives a shit what other people do or blow their money on?

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