I can't open on my device and my wife says it reports the page doesn't exist. I guess maybe it was deleted.Originally Posted by LittleLebowski
I can't open on my device and my wife says it reports the page doesn't exist. I guess maybe it was deleted.
There's nothing civil about this war.
I think there's a few things going on here. Likely this lady heard that the shooting was by "Hebrew Israelites" and thought of Jews, and probably doesn't know the difference between the extremist group and actual Jews.
With that being said, I'm going to get into some touchy areas and address an elephant that many people probably wouldn't talk about:
Her views are likely exacerbated by the segregation between orthodox jewish groups and gentiles in the northeast. I'm 100% not encouraging anti-Semitism, but people in the NYC metro area get frustrated with orthodox Jewish communities for reasons completely unrelated to what anti-Semitism looks like in the rest of the country. The communities are very segregated, to the point that Hatzolah ambulances have a habit of driving by medical emergencies and refusing to treat/transport because the people are gentiles, and the communities are super insular and hostile to outsiders, as well as absolutely carrying a trend of crime with them......Jewish gangs are a real thing, and specifically go after non-Jews through extortion, fraud and intimidation at businesses and as landlords, which causes more tension. These communities also bring a lot of crime through changing the socio-economic makeup of a town, because literally every house will be registered as its own kibbutz/religious sanctuary and thus tax exempt, so towns literally go broke.....which brings more crime.
My brother in law is Jewish, I had a hard crush on a Jewish girl before, and being from NJ I had several Jewish friends. Please understand I'm not a Nazi or anti-semetic, I'm even a staunch supporter of Israel and likely would have helped smuggle guns for the Haganah if I were alive and in the position to help during the late 40s. But these orthodox communities and the social tensions that surround them don't really exist in the rest of the country, so I wouldn't expect anyone to be aware of them. Before I moved back down to Virginia, I lived at the edge of an orthodox Jewish community about 10 minutes from where this shooting happened, and I can tell you that it's a very hostile culture, sorta like "me vs the world" bullshit.
These communities are also not representative of the average Jewish dude living in the area. Like my brother in law, on the other hand, are just regular dudes that blend in to society like regular dudes.
So, what I'm getting at is that lady's feelings are not likely being expressed from the anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi, or classical "Jews are a world conspiracy" point of view that most of America is used to being exposed to. Someone having critical views of "Jews" in the NYC area is likely coming at it from a very different angle, and different level of fervor, than someone in Charlottesville, VA. It's less about being Jewish and more about what certain communities in that area bring. Given we discussed the Mormon family down in Mexico recently, the situation probably has a lot in common to regular Mormons vs the super insular fundamentalist Mormon groups which are riddled with crime and hostility towards the rest of society.
With that said, I'm intimately familiar with Jersey City. It's a fucking garbage dump, and her feelings about shootings not existing prior to the Jews came is a big pile of horseshit. People in Jersey City have been shooting themselves up for no good reason for a few decades now, just the same as all the other decayed industrial cities in New Jersey, like Trenton, Paterson, Newark, New Brunswick, AC, etc.
So, I'm not saying she's not an idiot, I'm just saying that when you hear the comments about Jews in that area, don't assess it to be the same thing/context as when you hear "traditional" anti-Semitism and the imagery/history that evokes.
Last edited by TGS; 12-11-2019 at 03:26 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
Interesting info, @TGS.
I guess the bottom line is: fuck racist predators, even the Jewish ones.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Sigh....
The black Hebrew Israelites are not Jews, or at least not recognized as such.
There are a spectrum of beliefs within the black Hebrew Israelite movement but in general they believe that black people are the true Jews described in the Old Testament. Only a small percentage actually convert to Judaism. Many follow a mix of Christian and Jewish beliefs. Not all are violent or Extremists.
Among those that are violent extremists, They are black supremacists. They believe black people are the literal and biological descendants of the ancient Israelites, they also believe that the people who are currently known as the Jews are “devilish imposters “ And that people of other races including the Jews deserve only death or slavery. On surprisingly they are also virulently anti-law-enforcement.
None of this is new, I recall black Hebrew Israelite groups in New York City having run ins with law-enforcement in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
@HCM, as I always understood it, Black Hebrew Israelites are Jewish in the same sense that Nation of Islam dudes are actually Muslim.
Both groups don't know much about their supposed religion other than the name of their holy book, if even that.
For that matter, very similar to Abu Sayyef, or white supremacists that claim to follow the teachings of Jesus.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
If you ask them they will say they are Jewish but they will also tell you that the actual Jews are not Jewish so it is really an Alice in Wonderland Through the looking glass type of thing.
Unlike the nation of Islam which is actually an offshoot of the Moorish temple groups, There is a whole range of beliefs within the black Hebrew Israelite community. Some follow practices that are a weird mix of Christian and Jewish, others follow beliefs similar to messianic Jews, And still others follow variations of Judaism. They are not a unified group in the way the Nation of Islam is.
On the violent extremist end of the black Israelite movement, they are ideologically similar to the white supremacist Christian identity or creationist movements in that they believe that they are the chosen people of God and the true Jews of the Old Testament.
The black Hebrew Israelites have been around since the late 1800s and they have been active in the New York City metro area as long as I can remember. The point of my post was to clarify that the black Hebrew Israelites are not simply black people who have converted to conventional Judaism.
The other point would be that the violent extremist wing of this movement are just as violent, dangerous, and racist as the white supremacist extremists.
Last edited by HCM; 12-11-2019 at 03:48 PM.
I was already tracking. To be clear, I was referring to the Jewish gangs, and similar isolationists in the above post by TGS. I stand by my statement.
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
In the NYC they are just another “tribe” - every group there has their gangs, crooks and prejudices. The ethnic neighborhoods of New York City and northern New Jersey have always been a little Balkans.
The extremist wing of the black Hebrew Israelite movement or just as violent, dangerous, and racist as Dylan roof the Charleston church shooter, The El Paso Walmart shooter, or the Pittsburgh Synagogue shooter.
Last edited by HCM; 12-11-2019 at 03:57 PM.
Moreso back in the day.
Northern NJ is pretty intermixed these days, outside the destitute black communities and orthodox Jews, at least. With the exception of those two, you're not going to be treated like an asshole or run into trouble simply for your skin color, religion or heritage even in the ethnically centered communities like Ironbound or Fort Ree.
Last edited by TGS; 12-11-2019 at 04:04 PM.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
@TGS ... lived in Freehold, worked in Lakewood in my early years. I know your thoughts well.
used to work in the Lakewood Radio Shack. only store I ever worked at that had 2 big ass buttons under the counter; one called the cops automatically, the other caused the security gates to come down.
we needed them far more often than I had thought possible. I quit RS totally after a month there, as I didn't want to die in one of the all too frequent gang fights that happened near by.
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