Colt Tropper 70's

[CZ Man]

I inherited my grandfather's 357 Colt Border Patrol (based off the Trooper I believe) several years ago. I haven't shot it too much (maybe 400 rounds mix of 357 and 38's), but I have dry fired it. After reading the above posts, is that something I should stop doing? Or did they improve the internals on the Border Patrol?

[JonInWA]

Attachment 45824

Cons:

--snap caps required for dry fire (I have done a decent amount)

--trigger stacks, not as easy to work as a decent Smith or Ruger, and heavy

Pros:

--glass-on-glass feel trigger, mine has become nicer with use

--pretty, even my somewhat holster worn example

--300% more soul than a 686, GP-100, or Security-Six

I want a 6" next. I would be willing to pay $800 for absolute perfection, $650-700 for anything less.

The Colt Trooper line, and its offshoots undeniably handsome guns, but whenever someone throws in the line, "...more soul than a _________ (in this case 686,GP-100 or Security Six" I chuckle a bit. First, these things are basically tools, and to me their viability and a significant part of my appreciation is derived at how well they perform their intended function. Second, "soul" in a firearm is a pretty ephemeral term. My interpretation of it is that it's a combination of aesthetic beauty and function, and how well the functional intent of the designers is carried out, plus the manufacturing, fit and finish quality.

My GP-100 and Security Six in my opinion do an excellent job of personifying the eye, intend and skill of William Ruger and his designers and manufacturers-both people and factories. Both have been subsequently worked on (especially my GP-100) by master gunsmiths, who imparted their accumulated wisdom, skill and techniques into improving the guns-both operationally and aesthetically. My Security Six is endowed with a grip personally modified by the late Jacques Trausch, one that he and I discussed personally that he made for me specifically (actually, two-Wayne Dobbs has the other one he gave me). Soul? Mine have it in spades, far more so than what I see is a somewhat compromised design made with somewhat compromised materials, assembled by a notoriously contentious workforce, which has been commented on for out suspect results provided due to the labor/management strife. In my mind, the "soul" of a machine is derives from many aspects. YMMV, of course...

Now don't get me started on a 1911 versus Glock "soul" discussion....

Best, Jon

[Nightvisionary]

The Trooper MK III's are less desirable and not as finely manufactured as the earlier Colt 357 and Colt Trooper. I have paid under $500 for my Colt 357's and 1963 Colt Trooper locally. I wouldn't pay more than $600 for a MK III. I understand what earlier posters are saying when you look at it purely from a functional standpoint but from a collector, historical, and resale standpoint the Colt will always bring a premium over any Ruger revolver. However I would like to own a Ruger revolver or two if the price was right.

[03RN]

Ill admit ive passed on troopers in the past due to rumors of being delicate. Right after i got out of the Marines i would go on months long solo trips in the woods with just a handgun and used it primarily to shoot hares, grouse, beavers etc for my dog and i. I was skittish from being left with an inoperable gun.

[Baldanders]

The Colt Trooper line, and its offshoots undeniably handsome guns, but whenever someone throws in the line, "...more soul than a _________ (in this case 686,GP-100 or Security Six" I chuckle a bit. First, these things are basically tools, and to me their viability and a significant part of my appreciation is derived at how well they perform their intended function. Second, "soul" in a firearm is a pretty ephemeral term. My interpretation of it is that it's a combination of aesthetic beauty and function, and how well the functional intent of the designers is carried out, plus the manufacturing, fit and finish quality.

My GP-100 and Security Six in my opinion do an excellent job of personifying the eye, intend and skill of William Ruger and his designers and manufacturers-both people and factories. Both have been subsequently worked on (especially my GP-100) by master gunsmiths, who imparted their accumulated wisdom, skill and techniques into improving the guns-both operationally and aesthetically. My Security Six is endowed with a grip personally modified by the late Jacques Trausch, one that he and I discussed personally that he made for me specifically (actually, two-Wayne Dobbs has the other one he gave me). Soul? Mine have it in spades, far more so than what I see is a somewhat compromised design made with somewhat compromised materials, assembled by a notoriously contentious workforce, which has been commented on for out suspect results provided due to the labor/management strife. In my mind, the "soul" of a machine is derives from many aspects. YMMV, of course...

Now don't get me started on a 1911 versus Glock "soul" discussion....

Best, Jon

Well, I have to make do with guns with family history at best. Pachmayr is as fancy as my grips get.



Just regained temporary custody of my stepdaughter's GP-100, one of the guns I used to work up .357 loads in the 20th century.

I plan to run both on a timer and see what happens.

I must say the GP's trigger reminds me of going up the first creaky, rickety hill on "The Beast" roller coaster in high school. Right down to its mousy squeeks as the lockwork shudders though the motions of setting off a round. My cap guns had better trigger pulls. (Remember those euro ones that used 6 shot moons and strips in magazines? Damn, I wish I kept those.)

Not even in the same ballpark as the smooth-as-a-newborn's-cheek trigger on my Mk.III, but WTF do I know.

But the GP-100 really isn't as ass-ugly as many claim, assuming you can get over the awkward, scar-like gash of the "fit" of trigger module to frame.

Oh well, I'm sure the GP will seem better when the Trooper's lockwork explodes. I dry fire the hell out of it, it's gotta happen sooner or later...

[Baldanders]

OK, no timer but I did finally shoot these two side-by-side.

What did I learn? Mostly crap ammo is crappy. ☹

The GP-100 didn't like PPU 158 LSWCHP anymore than my 640 or the Trooper. At least I finally shot the last of that crap.

Unexpectedly, the Ruger did like Wolf .38 130 grain FMJ. Since it is the only revolver in the house that does, it's all going through it. During dusk shooting, I got more flash (particularly from the cylinder gap) than .357 Federal Champion 158 grain JSP generated. I think the powder is too slow burning for .38 in a pistol---do Russians mostly shoot this stuff out of carbines? There is much powder burning after the bullet leaves the muzzle. Stiff recoil, for a standard pressure (maybe?) .38 round. Both the Ruger and the Smith did similarly with the Federal. 357, OK.

I am surprised that there was very little, if any, difference in muzzle rise and felt recoil between the two in .357.

Next head-to-head will be with Remington. .38 125 grain loads, which seem to be the Trooper's "favorite."

I have a feeling that I will end up doing slightly better work with the lighter trigger of the Ruger, despite my smack talk above.

Then I'll have to get a lighter mainspring for the Colt. 😃

[Jim Watson]

Critical internal action components are only surface hardened, not thorough-hardened. That essentially precludes any action job being possible, other than judicious tuning through spring swaps.

So? We have been warned against stoning through the case hardening of Smith and Wesson lockwork since my first gun book of about 1957.

I once saw a Mk III with very good DA. It had nickel plated hammer and trigger in a blue gun. Did the plating level and smooth the inherently coarse surface of the sintered parts? I think so. A gunzine writer once gold plated his S&W action with a cheap brush plater for that purpose. Not to mention modern treatments like NP3 on the working parts.

[JonInWA]

So? We have been warned against stoning through the case hardening of Smith and Wesson lockwork since my first gun book of about 1957.

I once saw a Mk III with very good DA. It had nickel plated hammer and trigger in a blue gun. Did the plating level and smooth the inherently coarse surface of the sintered parts? I think so. A gunzine writer once gold plated his S&W action with a cheap brush plater for that purpose. Not to mention modern treatments like NP3 on the working parts.

I'm not so sure that plating, be it nickle, gold, NP3 or otherwise would be sufficient to ameliorate the inherently heavy and stacking double action triggerpull of the Mk III and Mk V Colts; it would probably help, possibly significantly, but to really lighten and smooth the actions in my opinion requires more than is possible given the material content and qualities of the components (empirical experience derived from my previous ownership of a sample size of exactly one of these, a Mk V Colt Lawman).

Look, if you've got one of these Colts and appreciate them for what they are, good on you. Get the Kuhnhausen book to understand and keep them running. I simply think that 1) the juice isn't worth the squeeze when compared to contemporary alternatives, and 2) am somewhat doubtful that parity can be achieved regardless of the available ministrations lavished upon them.

Another invidious factor is that some of these guns were manufactured during the labor-management contentiousness period of Colt's history; it might be prudent to treat them similar to a occupation-produced pistol made for Nazi Germany during WW II...

Best, Jon

[Baldanders]

So? We have been warned against stoning through the case hardening of Smith and Wesson lockwork since my first gun book of about 1957.

I once saw a Mk III with very good DA. It had nickel plated hammer and trigger in a blue gun. Did the plating level and smooth the inherently coarse surface of the sintered parts? I think so. A gunzine writer once gold plated his S&W action with a cheap brush plater for that purpose. Not to mention modern treatments like NP3 on the working parts.

Mk III actions are usually described as "very smooth." Mine feels like glass-on-glass, and while I was exaggerating a bit above, aside from very heavy weight ( over 12 lbs), it beats the snail snot out of a 90s era GP-100. It beats current Smith triggers. It's just heavy, and that's a matter of springs, not how smooth the parts are. Trooper actions are more fragile than others, but they are not rough in any way.

The stacking is not nearly as noticeable as other posters seem to think--keep in mind, folks complaining about the Colt actions in the day were comparing guns set up for PPC. Ever fired a PPC racegun?

[Baldanders]

I'm not so sure that plating, be it nickle, gold, NP3 or otherwise would be sufficient to ameliorate the inherently heavy and stacking double action triggerpull of the Mk III and Mk V Colts; it would probably help, possibly significantly, but to really lighten and smooth the actions in my opinion requires more than is possible given the material content and qualities of the components (empirical experience derived from my previous ownership of a sample size of exactly one of these, a Mk V Colt Lawman).

Look, if you've got one of these Colts and appreciate them for what they are, good on you. Get the Kuhnhausen book to understand and keep them running. I simply think that 1) the juice isn't worth the squeeze when compared to contemporary alternatives, and 2) am somewhat doubtful that parity can be achieved regardless of the available ministrations lavished upon them.

Another invidious factor is that some of these guns were manufactured during the labor-management contentiousness period of Colt's history; it might be prudent to treat them similar to a occupation-produced pistol made for Nazi Germany during WW II...

Best, Jon

All you need is a lighter mainspring. Easy peasy. And the actions are already quite smooth. Were does your gunsmithing knowledge come from? You can polish any action all you want, and it won't get lighter, although it may feel a bit less heavy.

And Smith and Wesson has had plenty of shit periods too....or at least we thought so in the 90s--"don't buy Bangor Punta era guns, etc."
Some folks would argue they are in a shit period now. 😏