Cooper made that recommendation over 40 years ago, regulations might have been different then.Originally Posted by TiroFijo
But my main aim was to cite a big bore traditionalist who could find a use for the needle blower.
Even though Mr Harrell thinks the 1911 is a blowback action and I don't, he does point out something I have seen elsewhere, the guns don't work.
That Glock conversion with the TCM short functioned reliably while I was watching and shooting.
Code Name: JET STREAM
The idea of the 22TCM or 9MM version is interesting. A couple of thoughts on the idea.
Since these cartridges have a fairly significant muzzle blast and flash and a good number of defensive shooting involve psychological stops rather than physical maybe the extra blast and flash isn't such a bad thing. Also I would guess that these cartridges don't focus on low flash powder since their intended use isn't defensive as a primary concern.
Is there a reason to go with 22 TCM over one of the ultra lightweight 9MM offerings that shoot solid copper or HP 9MM projectiles in 50-60gr weights at 2000 FPS and don't require a change to the standard 9MM gun,magazine or rarer specialized ammo? It's probably a lot easier to ramp up production of 9MM in ultra light weight offerings than a newer bottleneck cartridge and projectile PLUS new barrels etc.. to run them in.
Only if you want performance like this (taken from 5pins' testing of the load I believe that you are referencing):
I'd be inclined to pass on such performance.
When shooting through heavy clothing the first round hit the block at 2043fps. The bullet’s fragmentation started at 2.5 inches and continued to the 4-inch mark. The bullet core penetrated to 11.75 inches and had a recovered weight of 29.3 grains. The recovered fragment’s weight was 16.6 grains. The second round had a velocity of 2058fps and the core penetrated to 10.25 inches. Fragmentation was 3.5 to 4.5 inches. The total weight of the fragments was 17.9 grains and the core was 27 grains.
''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein
Full disclosure per the Pistol-Forum CoC: I am the author of Quantitative Ammunition Selection.
It seems similar to the 22 TCM for depth of penetration. I would guess that the hollow point could be changed to have a smaller opening and/or going with a solid projectile to ensure enough penetration. At 10.25-11.75" it isn't way off from the recommended 12" minimum. I assume that was the HP design? The version I have seen have a pretty big HP opening and cavity which would make for really fast expansion,fragmentation at those velocities and thus shedding weight and limiting penetration. There was a solid (pointy) lightweight version but I can't seem to find it's details.
I wonder if a hollow base, hollow base with band in center of projectile or tubular design projectile (a la Blitz Action Trauma style)fluted like ARX but not fragmenting or a cross flute like Lehigh Defense Extreme Penetrator projectile could be used to keep projectile weight light but prevent excess fragmentation or eliminate fragmentation and just tumble or break in 2 pieces like some 5.56 rounds.
In a similar vein this type of round in a PCC would reduce muzzle blast and flash(likely) while moving both a foot farther away from the eyes and ears. Use in a compensated handgun wouldn't help with blast or flash and might make it worse but would make for an even lighter recoiling gun.
I also think the flash isn't much of a concern; for home defense (.22 tcm granny defender - "get away from my knick knacks!") it would hopefully be employed with a weapon light, and any modern LED weapon light is far brighter then a muzzle flash.
Now as far as the 50gr Liberty / 65gr ARX and Lehigh XD.
The biggest problem I see there is cost. These are niche, premium SD loads, costing $0.75-$1.25 a shot, with no training analog (there is no 50-65gr 9x19 target fmj to train with.) As such, a recoil sensitive shooter would have no way to train effectively with these loads.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1001575929
Whereas .22 TCM, at ~$0.30-$0.40 a shot, is in line with the cost of .45 acp and brass .223, making it affordable enough to train with.
I don't think so. 9x19mm really is a Goldilocks cartridge.
I didn't even know there was a glock conversion for 22 tcm until this thread. I'd like to mess around with the caliber! My guess is it has a lot of muzzle blast like 357 sig, which for new shooters might be even worse than slightly more recoil. In the same token if they are close enough to a threat they could blind them or set their clothes on fire if they are lucky
To give a sense of just how low recoil .22 TCM is, here's a Full Auto Glock in .22 TCM:
Of course a machine pistol is controllable with TWO hands
Check this video out at 2:40
Internet rumor has it that Speer is releasing a 40gr Gold Dot 5.7x28 load in 2020. Stuff 20 rounds of this in the new Ruger-57 or the Five seveN and you have a handy field pistol.
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