New AR - use brass or steel case ammo?

[GyroF-16]

Though to be honest, nowadays my home defense mags are loaded with 62gr TBBC.

Really? May I ask why? My impression was that a heavy, soft point bullet would be preferable, especially for relatively close range (less than 100 yd, probably much less).

I feel like I’ve got a decent handle on what I like for handgun ammo as far as desirable terminal effects, but I’m still trying to learn for 5.56.

So your input is welcome.

As it is for others with knowledge in this area.

I’ve reviewed @DocGKR ‘s writeup on 5.56 duty ammo. But a good deal of it is Greek to me at this point. And, I’m not sure how much “barrier blindness” I need (or want).

[SiriusBlunder]

<snip>

I’ve reviewed DocGKR ‘s writeup on 5.56 duty ammo. But a good deal of it is Greek to me at this point. And, I’m not sure how much “barrier blindness” I need (or want).

<snip>

Doc talks about why you should use barrier blind ammo in a home defense AR here:

P&S ModCast 125 - Terminal Ballistics

It's been a while since I watched it, but IIRC there were different incidents where the bad guys were using a wooden frame couch for cover and the corner of a wall with 2x4s and non barrier blind bullets had issues reaching them.

Don't know if his recommendation has changed since then.

[TGS]

Really? May I ask why? My impression was that a heavy, soft point bullet would be preferable, especially for relatively close range (less than 100 yd, probably much less).

I feel like I’ve got a decent handle on what I like for handgun ammo as far as desirable terminal effects, but I’m still trying to learn for 5.56.

So your input is welcome.

As it is for others with knowledge in this area.

I’ve reviewed @DocGKR ‘s writeup on 5.56 duty ammo. But a good deal of it is Greek to me at this point. And, I’m not sure how much “barrier blindness” I need (or want).

The 62gr TBBC is a bonded JSP like you're wanting. It's a great carbine duty round (the best, maybe) for inside 100 yards.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry 75gr TAP, but it relies on fragmentation to wound and isn't as good through barriers.

[GyroF-16]

The 62gr TBBC is a bonded JSP like you're wanting. It's a great carbine duty round (the best, maybe) for inside 100 yards.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry 75gr TAP, but it relies on fragmentation to wound and isn't as good through barriers.

Thanks - that’s exactly the kind if information I’m looking for.

[HCM]

The 62gr TBBC is a bonded JSP like you're wanting. It's a great carbine duty round (the best, maybe) for inside 100 yards.

I wouldn't hesitate to carry 75gr TAP, but it relies on fragmentation to wound and isn't as good through barriers.

If you are having issues sourcing “tactical” ammo like the 62 grain TBBC FBI duty load the federal “Fusion MSR” 62 grain SP load is also a bonded / barrier blind suitable for home defense.

[HCM]

I’ll just leave this here:


https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/bra...el-cased-ammo/

TLDR version - the issue with cheap Russian Ammo isn’t the steel cases.

The bimetal bullets, which are ok at pistol velocity cause increased wear.

Hence the Hornady steel case stuff, with copper jacketed bullets is ok.

My take:

If you are a high volume shooter and have to buy all your own ammo a “sacrificial” cheap upper with a carbine length gas system could be worthwhile.

If you are mostly a pistol shooter sucking it up and buying brass case ammo is is cheaper.

PS- Wolf gold (Taiwanese M193 - not Russian) is actually good ammo.

[whomever]

"Respectfully, re: the hardness of brass vs steel, a quick Google search says otherwise

https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm

On Mohs scale (where larger values are harder):"

With apologies for the metallurgy geekout, a couple of thoughts:

1)Moh's scale is not one of the usual hardness scales used in metallurgy.
2)Talking about the properties of 'brass' or 'steel' is fairly imprecise. What alloy, in what condition?
3)The softest steels (e.g. 1010), in their softest (annealed) state, can indeed be softer than the hardest (sufficiently cold worked) cartridge brasses, measured with the Rockwell B scale or whatever. So you'd need to know the alloys and heat treat/cold work status of both, or measure their hardness directly, to know which is harder.
4)I wouldn't assume that their relative hardness definitively predicts their wear on a chamber; metal on metal wear is a black art.

To be clear, I have no knowledge or opinion on the relative merits of steel or brass cased ammo; just speaking to the metallurgy.

[GyroF-16]

"Respectfully, re: the hardness of brass vs steel, a quick Google search says otherwise

https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm

On Mohs scale (where larger values are harder):"

With apologies for the metallurgy geekout, a couple of thoughts:

1)Moh's scale is not one of the usual hardness scales used in metallurgy.
2)Talking about the properties of 'brass' or 'steel' is fairly imprecise. What alloy, in what condition?
3)The softest steels (e.g. 1010), in their softest (annealed) state, can indeed be softer than the hardest (sufficiently cold worked) cartridge brasses, measured with the Rockwell B scale or whatever. So you'd need to know the alloys and heat treat/cold work status of both, or measure their hardness directly, to know which is harder.
4)I wouldn't assume that their relative hardness definitively predicts their wear on a chamber; metal on metal wear is a black art.

To be clear, I have no knowledge or opinion on the relative merits of steel or brass cased ammo; just speaking to the metallurgy.

Thanks for adding to the conversation. As a fellow engineering geek, I’m always interested in more data. Sounds like “generic” characteristics aren’t as useful when we don’t know the alloys and heat treatment of either metal.
The Lucky Gunner test report linked earlier did a lot to address my concerns over steel cases and lacquers.
But it also gave evidence for the potential wear on a barrel from bi-metal bullets.
So if Hornady still had steel-cased, copper jacketed cartridges on the market at competive prices, I’d be interested.
As it is, I think I’ll be shopping for copper jacketed, probably brass cased ammo..

[blues]

As it is, I think I’ll be shopping for copper jacketed, probably brass cased ammo..

My recommendation...

[GyroF-16]

Thanks @blues

I’m debating between these two options.

The 62 gr stuff made in Lake City is about $16 more, but if I’m leaning towards a 62 gr round for “real world” applications, maybe $16 isn’t too much to pay for a likely similar POI.

Thoughts?

Anyone with experience with the stuff made for SGAmmo at Lake City?