New AR - use brass or steel case ammo?

[GyroF-16]

Okay guys-
I have a Geissele Super Duty on the way. Now I want to stock some ammo so I’ll have plenty to learn, practice, and train with.
First question: Steel-case or brass-case ammo? And, as a subset, brass jacketed projectiles or steel/alloy?

Here’s my understanding:
- Brass case / copper jacketed is the ideal. Least wear on the gun, chamber, and bore. Probably most accurate, and with best potential for terminal performance. And it seems to start at $300/1000 rds.
- Steel case / non-copper jacketed is the economy choice. A steel case is obviously less malleable - would it be harder on the gun? If it’s lacquered, is there a risk of the lacquer transferring to a hot chamber and building up, causing cases to stick in the chamber? Will non-copper jacketed bullets cause more wear on the bore? But it costs about $200/1000 rds, shipped.

So, I’ve got a very nice gun coming. Does it make sense to save $100 a case and get cheap, 55 or 62 gr steel ammo? Or is it worth it to pay 50% more for brass/copper ammo? It seems like over 5000 rds, it’d save $500, enough to replace a barrel. But it pains me to feel like I’d be “abusing” a nice gun.

What are the thoughts of the P-F shooters on this topic?

[WobblyPossum]

Decent brass cased ammo can be found for less than $300/case. Here’s some Wolf Gold for about $260: https://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_...o-1000rds.html. Still, the savings on steel cased ammo is substantial. I don’t believe Geissele offers their barrels for sale separately though. If you burn out a barrel, you won’t be to replace it with a Geissele one.

[Dan_S]

Steel case is NOT as hard as brass. Simple scratch test will show this to be correct. There is no reason to believe that steel cases increase wear on any part.

Laquered cases haven’t been sold...in years. The common coating is a polymer of some sort these days, and...again, not laquer.

[blues]

Hornady's steel case training ammo says it's lacquer coated. I don't offer the following for argument's sake, simply because I don't know anything more than what I've read:

Hornady Training 223 Remington Ammo 55 Grain Full Metal Jacket Boat Tail ammo review offers the following information; Hornady Training ammunition provides a cost-effective alternative to the standard TAP loads for tactical training. Loaded with Hornady bullets and proven propellants coupled with a higher quality lacquer-coated steel case and berdan primer, Hornady Training ammunition is designed to deliver point of aim / point of impact consistency when compared to comparable TAP offerings.

Hornady 223 Remington 55GR FMJ Training #9754EL

Made with the same quality as Hornady TAP duty ammunition. This ammunition gives the ability to keep your skills sharp without the additional cost or changing your zero when sighted in with the 55GR TAP ammunition. Ammunition is a lacquer coated steel case.

[Dan_S]

Interesting.

The imported steel cases stuff has been polymer coated for...years now.

[GyroF-16]

Steel case is NOT as hard as brass. Simple scratch test will show this to be correct. There is no reason to believe that steel cases increase wear on any part.

Laquered cases haven’t been sold...in years. The common coating is a polymer of some sort these days, and...again, not laquer.

Respectfully, re: the hardness of brass vs steel, a quick Google search says otherwise

https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm

On Mohs scale (where larger values are harder):
Brass - 3 to 4
Steel - 5 to 8.5

While I’m pretty sure that steel-cased ammo isn’t high-grade steel, I’m pretty that if it is steel, it’s going to be harder than brass.

Interesting to heat that polymer coatings are the norm now. That does eliminate that concern.

Any thoughts on jacketed vs bare metal projectiles?

[GyroF-16]

Hornady's steel case training ammo says it's lacquer coated. I don't offer the following for argument's sake, simply because I don't know anything more than what I've read:

Thanks, @blues.

Any validity to my concern about lacquer transfer/buildup?

[GyroF-16]

Decent brass cased ammo can be found for less than $300/case. Here’s some Wolf Gold for about $260: https://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_...o-1000rds.html. Still, the savings on steel cased ammo is substantial. I don’t believe Geissele offers their barrels for sale separately though. If you burn out a barrel, you won’t be to replace it with a Geissele one.

Thanks for bringing that up. In the unlikely event that I shoot out a Geissele barrel, I wonder if they re-barrel one of their own guns if I sent them the upper.
Largely an academic question though - since I’m mostly a pistol guy, it would likely take me at least a decade to put 10,000 rds through an AR at the rate that I imagine using it.

[Dan_S]

Respectfully, re: the hardness of brass vs steel, a quick Google search says otherwise

https://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm

On Mohs scale (where larger values are harder):
Brass - 3 to 4
Steel - 5 to 8.5

While I’m pretty sure that steel-cased ammo isn’t high-grade steel, I’m pretty that if it is steel, it’s going to be harder than brass.

Interesting to heat that polymer coatings are the norm now. That does eliminate that concern.

Any thoughts on jacketed vs bare metal projectiles?

I guess the informal testing of steel case hardness can be reproduced fairly easily, and I’d put a whole lot more stock in that than google.


Years ago, a friend (with a fairly impressive background in the engineering field) and I settled this by taking a steel case and a brass case and scratching them. The steel deformed easily, the brass didn’t. The steel was softer than the brass.

[blues]

Thanks, @blues.

Any validity to my concern about lacquer transfer/buildup?

I bought a couple boxes of the ammo a few years ago when I bought my AR but have never used it. I've been using Wolf Gold for training.

(Speer Gold Dot and Hornady TAP for real world ammo.)


ETA: I don't know if Hornady has changed anything since I purchased that steel cased ammo about three years back.