.45 Minor Defense

[Jim Watson]

I don't know if the USMC Nosler load is more accurate than FMJ SWC but I bet it feeds better.

[awp_101]

USMC. I'm not sure if they still use it or not, but it was about accuracy, not defense.

Does anyone offer it as a commercial load? All I’m finding so far is load data to roll your own.

[Hambo]

Does anyone offer it as a commercial load? All I’m finding so far is load data to roll your own.

Not that I know of. My notes on the load go back to 2003, and the data I have is for the 185gr Nosler, WST powder, and Federal 150M primers. I see that more recent versions use VV powder.

[BN]

If you can 1) find it, and 2) your gun will feed them, the Federal Gold Medal Match 185gr JSWC is an incredibly easy to shoot round that is about a 140 PF, if memory serves. I ran them the year I shot a .45 ACP at Bianchi Cup and they were quite accurate and fun to shoot.

https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-1...edal-50-rounds

[MGW]

1. Tolerance. My nerves and arthritis let me shoot 9mm regularly. USPSA Minor isn't winning me anything but a Major Flinch wouldn't either and be a lot less fun. Major or full power .45 hurts and will kick me into a flinch in short order. I load .45s way down to keep from retiring the guns. My carry and house guns are mostly 9mm.

2. Recommendations. A lot of people consider .38 Wadcutter to be suitable for self defense.

3. So what about .45 Midrange? Would I be reasonably well armed with a 185 gr at 775 fps? That's about all the fun I can stand for a reasonable practice with the Commander.

Jim, are you looking for a factory practice round or a new carry round?

I've been loading 200-grain SWC pretty light for practice and I'm really happy with them. Saves me a lot of money on practice ammo too. I also spent some time with a gunsmith tuning my 1911's to get the recoil impulse I wanted. I was really surprised at how much recoil reduction could be found just by swapping some components around. I'm sure you have already done that though.

[Lost River]

1. Tolerance. My nerves and arthritis let me shoot 9mm regularly. USPSA Minor isn't winning me anything but a Major Flinch wouldn't either and be a lot less fun. Major or full power .45 hurts and will kick me into a flinch in short order. I load .45s way down to keep from retiring the guns. My carry and house guns are mostly 9mm.

2. Recommendations. A lot of people consider .38 Wadcutter to be suitable for self defense.

3. So what about .45 Midrange? Would I be reasonably well armed with a 185 gr at 775 fps? That's about all the fun I can stand for a reasonable practice with the Commander.

PF Pistoleers have already beat me to the punch!

After reading your post, the first thought was 185 grain SWCs. I have shot a fair number of these and they are soft shooting. Plus, while I have never shot a human with them, I can attest that the SWC design is actually a rather effective design from the hunting standpoint. I have taken lots, (and I mean literal truck bed loads of game) with SWCs and they are very good at punching nice caliber size cookie cutter holes through things.

I was not even aware you could get 185s in a jacketed GMM load, so that is all the better, as all I have ever used is hard cast, but either would work. Very soft shooting, and accurate to boot in every .45 I have ever used them in.

The magic recipe btw (if you reload) is 185 grain SWC and 4.3 grains Clays.

The same load I have used forever with my 200 grain SWCs, just with a lighter bullet.

[358156hp]

PF Pistoleers have already beat me to the punch!

After reading your post, the first thought was 185 grain SWCs. I have shot a fair number of these and they are soft shooting. Plus, while I have never shot a human with them, I can attest that the SWC design is actually a rather effective design from the hunting standpoint. I have taken lots, (and I mean literal truck bed loads of game) with SWCs and they are very good at punching nice caliber size cookie cutter holes through things.

I was not even aware you could get 185s in a jacketed GMM load, so that is all the better, as all I have ever used is hard cast, but either would work. Very soft shooting, and accurate to boot in every .45 I have ever used them in.

The magic recipe btw (if you reload) is 185 grain SWC and 4.3 grains Clays.

The same load I have used forever with my 200 grain SWCs, just with a lighter bullet.

If we're talking about handloads, H&G 68 or Lyman 452460 with the above mentioned 4.3 gr of Clays. With lower velocity loadings, self-defense loads need to revolve more on bullet design, and the best non-expanding bullet designs are found with cast bullets.

[45dotACP]

I may be wrong, but I think the NYPD stakeout unit was a big user of SWC ammo...including Bill Allard who was a proponent of the .45 caliber

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[HCM]

I may be wrong, but I think the NYPD stakeout unit was a big user of SWC ammo...including Bill Allard who was a proponent of the .45 caliber

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eh... not exactly. NYPD did eventually transition from 158 grain lead round nose to 158 grain +P LSWC as their standard .38 load but I think that was after the stakeout squad.

They were big proponents of 12 gauge slugs and .30 cal M1 carbines.

Jim Cirillo was a proponent of SWC and WC, preferably jacketed with a sharp edge so it would dig in rather than glance off when it hit bone. They had bullets glance off skulls and pelvises. They were know for shooting fleeing robbers in the buttocks / pelvis to try and prevent their escape.One squad member in particular shot so many fleeing robber's in the ass he was known as "The Proctologist."

Allard did carry a 1911 .45 national match as his "back up" to his .38 cal service weapon but it had as much to do with having used the 1911 in high level competition as it being a .45. The browning high power was the "back up" auto of choice among NYPD in those days.

The stakeout squad was primarily made up of NYPD firearms instructors who were idle/ surplus during a hiring freeze and layoff. Keep in mind NYPD hires 1500 to 2500 cops per academy class and runs a couple classes per year to keep up with attrition from injuries, retirements etc. The hiring freeze meant 30-40 of their FI staff were excess to their needs. All of whom were the competition shooters, hunters, etc.

In other words the results the stakeout squad achieved were much more the result of software than hardware.

Cirillo was also a fan of .45 and 10mm in his later years, usually in S&W Autos. Regardless, neither was using a "minor" power factor load.

[45dotACP]

Ah, my mistake. Very interesting information btw.

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