HELP - Little frustrated with my group shooting with my Glock. Any advice?

[rodralig]

Good morning...! And first of, Happy Thanksgiving...!!! (hope you're having a nice warm time in spite of the cold downpour outside - here in Southern California)


That said, as per the title, am a little frustrated with my marksmanship with the Glock.

... Though I have other pistols, I am mostly a Glock shooter. All my practice (live and dry) are with my Glock, in particular, my match G34.3 (as of date, I have three G34.3s and one NIB G34.5 MOS).

In spite of that - when it comes to group shooting, ie., 15-, 20- and 25-yards, I cannot seem to get the same performance (tight groups, close to the X, etc.) as my other pistols.
Albeit, I have been able to hit steel silhouettes 240-yards out, standing freestyle at a 60% accuracy in ITTS' classes with my Glocks.


I don't even have to my try with my HK USP Expert 45, Walther Q5 Match (Polymer) and my CZ Shadow 2, which are all stock. Nice and tight (around 4-inches) and precise groupings at 25-yards. For example, here is a recent 15-shot group at 25-yards for the USP (a pistol that I have NOT shot in a YEAR!)... The painful part? I wasn't even trying!




And here are my 25-yard groups with my match Glock 34.3 just last night. And I really had to concentrate on the fundamentals (sight picture/alignment and the trigger pull).





Is it my fundamentals? I use a MantisX both in my dry fire and in live fire to detect 'movement,' etc. before and after the shot. In both situations, I consistently score 94+ - which, means minimal variations in my hold, especially when I pull the trigger and maintaining follow-through. Even during a few FTF (I guess I need to replace that spring) - there was no "umph" dropping the gun. And I am still not getting anywhere...

Is it the trigger? Obviously the USP, Q5 and the CZS2 have better triggers than even most tuned Glocks; but the time I have invested in the Glock is significantly way more than the other pistols. Surprisingly, my MantisX scores are higher and more consistent when I am using a heavier stock trigger as opposed to my match G34.3 lightened trigger (ie., polished parts with a lighter striker and striker spring).

Is it the range? The indoor place that I shoot in has poor lighting. Depending on which lane I get it is hard to get a contrast between the sights and the target (hence, I either use a RED or BLACK Shoot-N-C).

Is it my eyesight? I haven't had to wear glasses nor contacts until recently - just reading glasses (I have no problems seeing far, but, have been having difficulties up closer). At a closer range of 20-yards, here was my grouping last night (I shot this before my 25-yarders):



to the fact that with the red dot installed on my Q5 - I can achieve 3-inch groups at 20-yards at afaster rate of fire.


Ammunition? I don't reload - these are ALL factory. The USP had Freedom Munitions 200GR RN (new) while all my 9s are Fiocchi 115GR.


I also tried the "brain based diagnostic" chart

https://dryfiretrainingcards.com/blo...atter-targets/

but came out without any new insight, etc.



Any thoughts/ideas? Tips for diagnosis? Drills and/or training?

I really like the Glock and want to get better with it...!!! So any insights, etc. will be most appreciated... Thanks in advanced!




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[jeep45238]

I have come to the realization that shooting Glocks well forces me to undo everything I know about shooting a pistol well, and when I carried one I had to practice a LOT with only the Glock to maintain any proficiency. Other makes, not really.

Your eyesight changing can definitely have an impact, as well as lighting - I have astigmatism, and I can't touch an Aimpoint, I get lower-light starbursts from lights, etc.. As far as comparing optic accuracy and speed to iron sights, I'd be hesitant to complain about that - optics mechanically align the sighting system, something irons can't, so they will pretty much always be faster and more accurate.

As far as ammo - it can be a point of contention for the gun. Some guns of the same make/model like different ammo, heavier or lighter bullets, etc..



If you're deadset on running the Glock well, I'd put the other stuff away and shoot nothing but the Glock, and run different bullet weights from different manufactures through it to see what it likes. Personally, I think it says a lot about how you shoot with non-Glock platforms with a lack of effort - either there's an ergonomic difference between the Glock and your other pistols (highly likely), or you're getting a mindset subconsciously that those feel different, so you slow things down a bit and have less pressure, resulting in a better group. I'd shelve the Glock and run a platform that you already outperform it with and practice with that if I was in your shoes.

[GJM]

My experience is a Gen 3 Glock 34 is less accurate than my other Glock 9mm pistols. Also, ammo can mean a lot with a Glock, and I would try American Eagle 115 and 147 and Lawman 115 to start. Have you shot your Gen 5 Glock 34 — AE 115 is a great shooter in multiple G5/34 pistols i own.

[rodralig]

As far as ammo - it can be a point of contention for the gun. Some guns of the same make/model like different ammo, heavier or lighter bullets, etc..

I live in California - and the choice of ammo is now a luxury. I make do with what is available (until I get the opportunity to reload) - either Fiocchi 115GR or S&B 115GR.

BTW, I have read somewhere that heavier bullets are more accurate? Hhhmmm...

If you're deadset on running the Glock well, I'd put the other stuff away and shoot nothing but the Glock, and run different bullet weights from different manufactures through it to see what it likes.

That's the point. I shoot and practice nothing but Glocks. I took my HK out from the safe after a year - just to play around. The same for the other pistols.

Personally, I think it says a lot about how you shoot with non-Glock platforms with a lack of effort - either there's an ergonomic difference between the Glock and your other pistols (highly likely), or you're getting a mindset subconsciously that those feel different, so you slow things down a bit and have less pressure, resulting in a better group.

Could be - pistol craft is as much more mental than physical.

I'd shelve the Glock and run a platform that you already outperform it with and practice with that if I was in your shoes.

Hahaha...!!! I wish it were that easy - have invested a lot in Glocks, and my other pistols (like the CZ Shadow 2, which I really like) are hard to come by...

My experience is a Gen 3 Glock 34 is less accurate than my other Glock 9mm pistols. Also, ammo can mean a lot with a Glock, and I would try American Eagle 115 and 147 and Lawman 115 to start. Have you shot your Gen 5 Glock 34 — AE 115 is a great shooter in multiple G5/34 pistols i own.

I have already added shooting my NIB G34.5 to my 'menu' for my next live fire session.





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[jeep45238]

I live in California - and the choice of ammo is now a luxury. I make do with what is available (until I get the opportunity to reload) - either Fiocchi 115GR or S&B 115GR.

BTW, I have read somewhere that heavier bullets are more accurate? Hhhmmm...
--
That's the point. I shoot and practice nothing but Glocks. I took my HK out from the safe after a year - just to play around. The same for the other pistols.

Could be - pistol craft is as much more mental than physical.
--
Hahaha...!!! I wish it were that easy - have invested a lot in Glocks, and my other pistols (like the CZ Shadow 2, which I really like) are hard to come by...
--
I have already added shooting my NIB G34.5 to my 'menu' for my next live fire session.
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Regarding ammo, would your local dealer take a request to get in 500 rounds of X, Y, and Z to try and figure it out?

I guess my point regarding the other platforms is you already own them, and with minimal effort shoot them better than the Glock you're struggling with.

Anywho, good luck - I've just found that playing with bullet weights, and sticking to a single platform that works better for me without effort yields much better results when effort is applied.

[Alpha Sierra]

Don't overthink and overanalyze this. You shoot very well with pistols that aren't Glocks and suck with Glocks.

I had the same problem and solved it by getting rid of Glock.

Make no mistake, despite the fanboyism here and elsewhere there are many pistols that match or surpass Glocks in every important aspect.

Dump them and move on.

[0ddl0t]

I suspect 1st shot flyer + ammo that your gen 3 doesn't love.

See this thread for more info: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....quared-Youtube

PS: If ammo is that hard to comeby locally, you should look into getting your curio & relic ffl + coe so you can order ammo online like a free citizen...

[rodralig]

I suspect 1st shot flyer + ammo that your gen 3 doesn't love.

See this thread for more info: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....quared-Youtube

PS: If ammo is that hard to comeby locally, you should look into getting your curio & relic ffl + coe so you can order ammo online like a free citizen...

Thanks for the response!!!

I have added your link to my To Read over the weekend. It looks like a wealth of information.

Yeah, I guess I will need to really get my Type 3. Been wanting to try those Syntech for matches.




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[RevolverRob]

When diagnosing group size issues, I want to eliminate variables, before I do anything else. The biggest variable in freestyle group shooting is the shooter.

So let's mitigate that by shooting the gun rested off the bench. Have you done this? Do it side-by-side with a gun you also shoot well (e.g., the HK). Preferably, you can use the same caliber and same ammunition between both guns to control for that variable. But if not, let's isolate the shooter as part of the equation first.

So, shoot your groups - FWIW - I only use 25-yard NRA B8s for this work (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1015212843). I fire 10-shot groups in strings of five. That gives you a maximum score of 100. Anything below 80 is cause for concern. Ideally, we're 90+ in scoring. If you're 90+ in scoring your group sizes will generally be <4".

Now, have another good/accomplished shooter do the same thing as you, shoot your "control" gun (e.g., HK), and the experimental gun (Glock). Compare group size and target scoring.

Once you have a baseline off the bench, begin tuning the other variables - sights, ammunition, etc. I would guess that your Glock is capable of better than 5" freestyle groups at 25-yards, but I would not anticipate it is capable of much better than 3" groups with the "right" ammunition choice. I'd start by adjusting my ammunition choice. If you do not currently handload, I'd consider it, you may be able to tune the gun better this way. FWIW - premium defensive ammunition typically turns in very good groups. So if you're trying to isolate an ammo issue it'll be more expensive, but you might try some defensive ammo like HST/Gold Dot/Ranger.

My opinion (which is worth what you're paying for it here), is that you likely have a combination of the wrong ammo choice and mediocre Glock barrel accuracy. I've never seen a 9mm Glock factory barrel prior to the Gen 5s produce <2" groups without the perfect ammo. The occasional gun will do it, but most of them are 3" guns at best. If after some ammo tuning you still can't get better than 3-4" groups off the bench, I'd swap the stock barrel. Jarvis or Bar-Sto would be my choice. I'd bet that will clear up grouping issues almost instantly.

[okie john]

For details on how to shoot a Glock for pure accuracy, see post 37 here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....evisited/page4


Okie John