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Thread: LEO Indicted for Killing Active Shooter

  1. #21
    Found it.
    The attorney said Mitchell had just completed training on how to deal with an active shooter and was cleared by an independent internal affairs review of the incident.
    Kay County District Attorney Brian Hermanson recused himself from the case and the OSBI issued its findings to Stephens County District Attorney Jason Hicks for review. Hicks submitted the evidence to the multi-county grand jury.
    https://www.poncacitynow.com/blackwe...hooting-death/

  2. #22
    Site Supporter Erick Gelhaus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    How many rounds did it take to stop the threat?
    Blues, it was a question as to what their issue was. Don't have an opinion on this one, nowhere near enough information out there.

    I asked if the round count drove the grand jury's decision making. Regardless of what the L/E and Mil communities have come to understand about the number of actual hits it may take to stop someone (never mind the number of shots it takes to get those hits), the public and many attorneys do not (will not?) understand those issues. "THey" have bought into one or two rounds should be sufficient to end the fight.

    It's a fascinating subject. On one hand, I hear significant L/E and citizen firearms trainers talking about keeping the number of shots low and then I read, hear Mil instructors talking about how the shooting program at the SF schoolhouse evolved from a physical platform that worked for two rounds to one that worked for ten rounds. That happened, per them, because they found they needed to hit people a lot more than they had thought.

  3. #23
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    Oklahoma County also sent this guy to jail. Maybe someone has more details as to what happened.

    https://www.enidnews.com/former-okla...0d01eb281.html

  4. #24
    they don't think like us blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Blues, it was a question as to what their issue was. Don't have an opinion on this one, nowhere near enough information out there.

    I asked if the round count drove the grand jury's decision making. Regardless of what the L/E and Mil communities have come to understand about the number of actual hits it may take to stop someone (never mind the number of shots it takes to get those hits), the public and many attorneys do not (will not?) understand those issues. "THey" have bought into one or two rounds should be sufficient to end the fight.

    It's a fascinating subject. On one hand, I hear significant L/E and citizen firearms trainers talking about keeping the number of shots low and then I read, hear Mil instructors talking about how the shooting program at the SF schoolhouse evolved from a physical platform that worked for two rounds to one that worked for ten rounds. That happened, per them, because they found they needed to hit people a lot more than they had thought.
    Definitely wasn't trying to be contentious, Erick. You have my respect. Just trying to wrap my head around it, as you are.

    I don't for a second doubt that the round count was an issue. I've even been asked in court about how many rounds were in my gun pre and post incident even when I hadn't fired it.

    Of course, beyond the indictment itself, the venue is also of concern. Not a harbinger of good things on the horizon in my humble, (thankfully) retired point of view.
    Last edited by blues; 11-27-2019 at 12:17 PM.
    The only difference between our taliban and theirs are the duds.

  5. #25
    CWM11B
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    Yeah, this is how you get smile and wave policing with response times that would make a snail look like an Olympic sprinter. I guess that DA never read Graham. Glad I'm not out there anymore
    Last edited by CWM11B; 11-27-2019 at 12:42 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    Blues, it was a question as to what their issue was. Don't have an opinion on this one, nowhere near enough information out there.

    I asked if the round count drove the grand jury's decision making. Regardless of what the L/E and Mil communities have come to understand about the number of actual hits it may take to stop someone (never mind the number of shots it takes to get those hits), the public and many attorneys do not (will not?) understand those issues. "THey" have bought into one or two rounds should be sufficient to end the fight.

    It's a fascinating subject. On one hand, I hear significant L/E and citizen firearms trainers talking about keeping the number of shots low and then I read, hear Mil instructors talking about how the shooting program at the SF schoolhouse evolved from a physical platform that worked for two rounds to one that worked for ten rounds. That happened, per them, because they found they needed to hit people a lot more than they had thought.
    I think the highlighted part is a distinct possibility. Sadly, people just don't have first hand knowledge of firearms today and their capabilities, they only know what they see on TV and movies. There's also those DAs taking things to litigation solely for the reason of getting "positive outcome". Some are more concerned with padding their win column than achieving actual justice. In this instance it could be one or both.

  7. #27
    they don't think like us blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    I think the highlighted part is a distinct possibility. Sadly, people just don't have first hand knowledge of firearms today and their capabilities, they only know what they see on TV and movies. There's also those DAs taking things to litigation solely for the reason of getting "positive outcome". Some are more concerned with padding their win column than achieving actual justice. In this instance it could be one or both.
    It's a given that most DAs or AUSAs won't take a case to trial they don't feel that they have a good chance of winning. Most LEOs are pretty much used to dealing with that point of view, and it's the rarer bird that will take a case to trial simply on its merits and because it's the right thing under the law. (Assuming that it gets past their "superiors".)

    But when a case is brought simply to appease the hue and cry of the "community" without concern for the statutes and spirit of the law, the evidence, the fallout on the lives of the officers involved and their departments...it does not bode well.

    This erosion of public confidence and Constitutional protections demonstrates that the canary has not survived the coal mine.
    The only difference between our taliban and theirs are the duds.

  8. #28
    10.3" Master Race TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post

    But when a case is brought simply to appease the hue and cry of the "community" without concern for the statutes and spirit of the law, the evidence, the fallout on the lives of the officers involved and their departments...it does not bode well.
    The weird thing is that from what I can tell (I obviously don't reside in OK), there's no public outcry other than, "Wait, wtf, you're charging a cop who SHOT AN ACTIVE SHOOTER?!"

    Which is why I'm waiting for some nugget of information to come out explaining the charge, which happens to be left out of the story...…..like he executed the subject, gratuitous strikes, or something.

    It just doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by TGS; 11-27-2019 at 01:13 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  9. #29
    they don't think like us blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    The weird thing is that from what I can tell (I obviously don't reside in OK), there's no public outcry other than, "Wait, wtf, you're charging a cop who SHOT AN ACTIVE SHOOTER?!"

    Which is why I'm waiting for some nugget of information to come out explaining the charge, which happens to be left out of the story...…..like he executed the subject, gratuitous strikes, or something.

    It just doesn't make sense.
    Since it is a truism that virtually any DA or AUSA can get a ham sandwich indicted, there had to be some particular (and strong) motivation (or ax to grind) by the prosecuting authority to go down this road since it is at odds with prior findings. Like you, I am very interested to have all the facts come to light.
    Last edited by blues; 11-27-2019 at 01:46 PM.
    The only difference between our taliban and theirs are the duds.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter hufnagel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blues View Post
    How many rounds did it take to stop the threat?
    I'm gonna guess, at least 60.
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