Accuracy Diagnosis/Target Selection

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This for me as well, although it's a color/contrast issue vs a focus issue. Black sights vs a black background, especially at an indoor range, disappear for me. I have to have a colored insert or the front sight is literally invisible to my perception. I can see the rear sights, I can see the target, I can even see most of the barrel, but I can't find the front sight. So, especially on indoor ranges, I shoot light gray b-8s or other targets.

I shoot exclusively outdoors, and one thing that probably doesn't help sometimes is the wind. Even at 3 yards shooting dot torture, wind can play hell.

[lwt16]

However, shooting DA/SA I've spent a lot of time working the DA that I almost feel I can run it better than the SA, and I've shortened to SA up a bit more even with the TJIB from LTT.

What was the question? The question really was "am I some special kind of stoopid, or do I have any kind of clue how to shoot a pistol?" I don't get to shoot with other folks very often, and the few times I typically do, I'm a far better shooter. I really need somebody to shoot with from time to time that's closer to my level. Plus the direction I'm going with pistol shooting means I need to get my crap sorted out.

I am the same way with revolvers....I can dial shots in much much better with DA than with the lighter, hair trigger SA.

I get my B8 repair centers bulk on the bay. You might want to check there.

Shooting B8s at 25 and 50 I have learned that trigger control is most of what the game is all about. Let the sights wobble (within reason), equal light/height, and constant trigger press allowing the gun to fire when it's ready...not when I am ready. HARD front sight focus and let all else fuzz...combining all the above with that front sight laser sharp beneath the bull. At almost 50 years old, I have to don readers to achieve this sight focus.

Then out of nowhere......BOOM/RECOIL.

Or....if I am loaded up with snap caps or dry firing.......CLICK....out of nowhere.....and that front sight had better be steady big time.

This is something you can work on alone. Start out with the basics and then work on holding 10 shots in the scoring rings. Then, 10 shots in the 8 ring.....then 10 in the black. Once you are where you can all black a B8, then you will try to 9 ring all 10. THAT is where you start working on grip pressure, different ammo, better sights, and any micro mistake will cost you a 8 ring hit.

If you and I were going to the range today to work on it, I'd load up your mags with dummy rounds and you and I would more than likely figure out it's a trigger control issue. If you were throwing shots high, we'd likely find out it's a sight/vision issue. If you were left or right.....or "all over the place" we'd likely go back to your trigger press.

One of the biggest eye openers for me was shooting someone else's pistol with a red dot on it. I could see that dot dip down on my press.....and all of the sudden I figured out I was hosing up my press. My groups started tightening up. Then, I got comfortable with sight wobble....and quickly found out that a little off wobble when the shot breaks is TONS more accurate than rushing the press to ambush the bull when the sights are perfectly aligned on it. Ambushing gets me a low left 8 or 7 ring hit whereas allowing wobble at the break keeps me in the 9 and 10 ring.

One other thing is single hand shooting allowed me to see more trigger errors than a 2 hand hold. Strong hand only shooting at 25 and 50 requires immense trigger press and front sight focus....so much so that after a session, I'm pretty wiped out.

You can improve but it won't be overnight. Dry fire is cheap and helps me tons.

Regards.

[lwt16]

I shoot exclusively outdoors, and one thing that probably doesn't help sometimes is the wind. Even at 3 yards shooting dot torture, wind can play hell.

I shoot exclusively outdoors as well. At 3, 5, 7 yards, the wind has no impact on my 9mm shooting whatsoever. Occasionally at the 50 with .45 auto I will see some wind issues in strong winds but not enough to cause me to pack up and go home.

I'll gladly take a bit of wind rather than shoot with diminished light. But then again, too much sun can be bad as well....depending on where it glares off my sights.

[thward89]

Let the sights wobble (within reason), equal light/height, and constant trigger press allowing the gun to fire when it's ready...not when I am ready. HARD front sight focus and let all else fuzz...combining all the above with that front sight laser sharp beneath the bull.

This is probably the best advice I've heard on this subject. Trying to put this into practice has improved my scores on B8s and made me much better at "shot-calling".

[psalms144.1]

Shooting low at 25 yards, in my experience, is frequently tied to a trigger snatch. At 25 yards, we get so focused on our sight picture, we can unconsciously yank the trigger when the sights look perfect, trying to make the gun go off RIGHT NOW. Usually this results in a nose dive of the front sight, and a resulting low shot.

The best way to diagnose if this is your issue is ball and dummy, preferably with someone else loading your mags so you don't know when you're going to get a click instead of a bang, and watching your front sight all the way through every trigger press. If you hit a dummy and your front sight dives like a U-Boat trying to avoid a Yankee destroyer, you know what's going on.

If you're driving the sight down unintentionally, the way to get over that is to make a conscious decision to press the trigger all the way through, no stops, no staging, once you have an acceptable - NOT PERFECT - sight picture. Double action revolvers are GREAT for this training - get your sights generally on target and then press that long, heavy trigger all the way to the rear smoothly with no stops.

[JohnO]

So, with my M9, accuracy on any target is rock solid to 10 yards. 15 is usually good. That's where I feel like it gets weird. At 15 and 25 yards (especially 25), I can start having issues with keeping groups centered when using the B8's printed on white paper. The freestyle shooting thread here has been a source of frustration. I do one or both of two things. Groups start running low, or just plain go to hell (usually while being low).

If I switch to shooting the IDPA targets, or even Q targets, I don't have the problem nearly as much. 25 yards it's much easier to keep rounds centered in the -0 zone than it is to keep them on the flipping paper using B8's. I do feel like I can't focus well on the B8s at extended range. Move out to 35 and 50 yards, it's not too terribly hard to keep in the -0 and -1 zones on the target, although the gun either starts to shoot low at 50+, or I'm doing something wrong.

First of all you should define what you mean by "rock solid". 10 Yards - everything easily in the X-ring of a B8? One ragged hole?

Ten yards and beyond is where little problems with technique that can't be seen in closer manifest themselves.

Regarding the perceived differences you are experiencing with targets. Of course I'm not inside your head but the following may apply.

The B8 has defined scoring rings. It doesn't matter if you can't see the rings at distance however psychologically the shooter is attempting to register a maximal score. The emphasis on making a perfect shot enables those little peccadillos in your technique to influence the outcome. Most notably focal shift between the sights and the target. Too much emphasis on refining the sight picture at the expense of sacrificing sight alignment. Think of it this way: If your sight picture moves up 1" and left 1" (from perfectly centered) you can still score a 10. However if your front sight goes high, low, left or right by only a few thousandths of an inch you will impact outside of the Black. Place your front sight where it needs to be on the target for your pistol. Then look and work only at perfecting sight alignment. Virtually everyone I have do this improves their score.

As I explained above the IDPA, Q and other targets with generous scoring zones are just that generous. Less pressure on the shooter to do well. It shows vs. a B8. You can see the same thing with someone ringing reduced size steel at 50 yards and struggling on a B8 at 25.

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Thanks a bunch guys. I’m starting to be able to see that I don’t have any special issues, and I can do a lot of self diagnosis, but I’ve got to develop the confidence to say “yes, this is the issue.”

And get some B8s that are 10.5x10.5 on the tan background.


This was last week. Ten yards. Squares are 1.75”, pulled the first shot high. Ran three shots, one DA, two SA, decock, repeat.

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This was also last week, 25 yards. Got home and superimposed impacts on a B8 for a score.

[lwt16]

Right handed?

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Yes I am