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Thread: Robbery Intervention Gone Wrong: What can be Learned From This?

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erick Gelhaus View Post
    It's cliche, and also very unfortunate, the BadGuy(s) always get a vote.

    Quite difficult to tell from the video what exactly was going on. Getting distance, backing down that aisle - even a bit, might well have been a better idea and had some benefit. Might.

    At the least, sidestepping a la Givens while presenting would have kept the other dude from just point-shooting him to death on reflex—which is sort of what it looked like to me (.58 or .59 in on the vid).
    Last edited by Totem Polar; 11-24-2019 at 10:29 PM.
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

  2. #12
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    The main problem I see is that the deceased (God rest his soul and bless his bravery) seemed to be operating on the assertion that most criminals (even armed ones) will flee/melt from the mere presence of a gun or the sound of a gunshot. That isn't always going to be the case...and if it isn't gonna be the case, you're gonna have a gunfight on your hands and you had better hope you're the better fighter.

    The problem there is that they did flee...but he positioned himself between the armed assailants and the door, so they'd have to run past him, meaning an exchange of gunfire was inevitable...and unfortunately he wasn't able to solve the problem. A cornered animal is dangerous...especially at such close distances.

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  3. #13
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    The more training that you get, and the more that you study confrontations, the more you realize how many things can go wrong and how quickly it can happen.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GardoneVT View Post
    Neither of which would stop a “sleeper” customer or hidden assailant behind the Samaritan. This happened in a WalMart not long ago, and the permit holder died in that incident as well.
    That was not a robbery. It was a Domestic Terrorism incident. It was in Las Vegas about 4 years ago. A couple, both sovereign citizen/ milita types who had been kicked off the bundy ranch by the militia for being to unstable decided to murder some cops on a meal break at a CiCis pizza. The shooters then ran to Walmart where the CCW holder confronted the male and was taken out by the female.

    Regardless, as the homies say “Life’s a risk Carnal!”

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    At the least, sidestepping a la Givens while presenting would have kept the other dude from just point-shooting him to death on reflex—which is sort of what it looked like to me (.58 or .59 in on the vid).
    Not really.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    Off the X, cover/concealment? If they could centerpunch him without getting through a bunch of Les Paul and Stratocaster bodies, and a rack or two of rusty snapon socket sets and worn leather jackets first, then he was F.A.S.T.ing wrong. Still sucks; he sounds like my sort of people. May justice find the two dirtbags, soon.
    That seems like the logical thing to do but if you watch enough videos of actual gun fights people rarely go to cover once shots are fired.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter psalms144.1's Avatar
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    Lessons learned for me, based on the VERY minimal information available and crappy video:

    1. BE A GOOD WITNESS. How many times do we have to hammer into off duty cops NOT to intervene barring immediate threat to life/limb? Yes, there were two BG with handguns engaged in a robbery - what triggered the requirement to intervene? I didn't see (could be the video quality) any indication that this was anything other than a robbery - let them take the cash/jewelry and get out.

    2. Distance is your friend. No reason not to make space - I mean, we're ALWAYS better shots than the BGs, right? But, as previously pointed out, it looked like the fatal shot was delivered at arms length, while moving, one handed at close range - a shot that would likely NOT connect if the deceased had been 10 feet further back.

    3. Combo of above. Even IF BG1 hadn't ended this fight with a possibly very lucky (for him) shot, the deceased placed himself pretty close to between two armed assailants. In the grand scheme of things, this is a BAD PLACE to start the gunfight from. Two shooters, close to me, too far apart for me to stack, I'm backing up with my hands up until I'm in cover. Then, IF the situation goes sideways, I have the advantage, not the BGs.

    My prayers go out for the soul of the deceased and the family he left behind.

  8. #18
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Not really.
    Not really as in sidestepping wouldn’t help, or not really as in BG wasn’t just point shooting?
    ”When antisemitism moves from the shameful fringe into the public square, it is not about Jews… it is about the surrounding society or the culture or the country. It is an early warning system—a sign that the society itself is breaking down. That it is dying.” -Bari Weiss

  9. #19
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    Then there's also the not inconceivable idea that the thug is as skilled (or more) as you with a handgun...…..
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 11-25-2019 at 11:22 AM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    Not really as in sidestepping wouldn’t help, or not really as in BG wasn’t just point shooting?
    Not really as side stepping isn’t enough movement to make a real difference. Movement is good but a single side step has little to no effect IME.

    Not to be too critical of Mr. Givens but we have a lot more actual shooting videos and a lot more time watching people in force on force evolutions. Along those lines there are a lot of things that are logical for people to do like taking cover once rounds start flying or dropping things in their hand instead of shooting one handed but we don’t see them doing them under duress.

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