Would you trust a P320?

[zpelletier]

I think the issues stem from SIGs actions causing a lack of trust in the company itself. Issues with new products isn’t the end of the world, I think the P320 is an interesting idea and I think could be a great firearm, I just don’t trust SIGs quality control to continuously produce reliable pistols.

[Bucky]

Just remember that most here don't really appreciate Sig and have been long-time users of other platforms (Glock, HK, Berretta DA/SA, etc.) and may have a confirmation bias they may not be aware of, regardless of how much they try to say otherwise.

It should also be noted there are several long time Sig fans, “classic Sig’s” (P226, 228/9, etc), that are also less than pleased with Sig’s current offerings.

[Bucky]

Even as a M2.0 fanboy, though, I have zero issue with agencies choosing Glock, which remains pistol-for-pistol probably the most drama-free wide-issue pistol out there. If I was making an agency level decision, for a few hundred officers, I'd probably choose the Gen5 Glocks, my own personal M2.0 fandom notwithstanding.

Kabooms with factory ammo, issues with rail mounted lights on .40s, weak ejection on early Gen 4 9mms, frisbee test fail, early issues with NYC guns which included one that would fire when the slide was dropped. Seems Glock has had quite a fair share of drama.

For the record, not a Glock hater and frequently carry one.

My official answer to the initial question, is the same I’d give all guns, not at first. For example, I wouldn’t trust an unknown 19, but I’d trust MY 19 because it’s been vetted by me.

[Alpha Sierra]

Kabooms with factory ammo, issues with rail mounted lights on .40s, weak ejection on early Gen 4 9mms, frisbee test fail, early issues with NYC guns which included one that would fire when the slide was dropped. Seems Glock has had quite a fair share of drama.

It's amazing how many forget all of Glock's mistakes.

[newyork]

Are the majority of the 320 mags Italian? Is there a way to differentiate when buying? Are they offered in standard and neutered capacities?

Are Sigs classic line suffering lately?

[ddown]

Is this a professional assessment or a layman's opinion?

I guess Panama, three tours Iraq, Afghanistan 26 years total service. I am not a Laymen but expert at what GIs will do or attempt to do to a gun. And I owned 2 Sig P320s that both required repair at the mothership So not just an opinion. Compare the Myriad # of parts in FCU and slide remember P320 was designed to fit a 250 frame. Not design FCU then the gun.

[kcevans]

Early PX4s had issues. Period. We had posters here whose LE agencies issued the PX4 and reported from first hand experience and people who conducted training for agencies that issued them.

Companies make inline changes all the time. The PX4, (or insert model here) you buy today may, or may not be the same as an example from 10 years ago.

Another factor is the PX4’s rotating barrel lock up requires a unique lubrication procedure for best results.

Having tried a couple of PX4, including a Langdon model I still hate them despite being a big 92 fan.

As for the P320, SIG has “fixed” the drop safety issue and the issue with magazines disassembling if dropped loaded or partially loaded. The new mags have a square, rather than round take down hole in the base pad.

The SIG P320 design, when properly executed, is safe, accurate and reliable.

Now, SIG continued selling non drop safe guns for more than 6 months after they knew about and had engineered a fix for the drop safe issue. It took a federal lawsuit for them to acknowledge there was a problem.

They also have both US and Italian made mags but only recommend the Italian mags for Duty use.

Thus the question is not has the design been corrected ? It has, but rather, do you trust SIG to execute it properly ?

And to my point, 99.0% of the negative postings come from posters who have NEVER had any experience with what is being discussed, just hear say. Personal choice is subjective and we all must find what we like and what works for us.

[TeflonDon]

There are both valid concerns and reasons NOT two trust Sig and the P320, and an argument can be made for why you currently can trust them.. The solution is simple. If you trust them, buy one and stop worrying about what others think. If you don't trust them, buy a Beretta APX. Me personally, I'm more fond of the APX. The P320 never appealed to me, and even if the P320 is fixed now, I don't like the way the company handled the situation.

[HCM]

And to my point, 99.0% of the negative postings come from posters who have NEVER had any experience with what is being discussed, just hear say. Personal choice is subjective and we all must find what we like and what works for us.

First hand reports from the founder of this forum and a firearms instructor for an agency that issues a particular gun or not hearsay.

Maybe other places but on PF you have 1) people who actually shoot and 2) people who do this for a living. Along those lines There is a difference between personal choice and objective choice of weapons for everyone in an organization. We have several people here including myself who have experience with the latter. Unfortunately not all information from professional sources can be cited or shared publicly. Issues with the SIG P320 not being dropped safe Were known in certain circles prior to it going public but could not be disclosed due to NDA.

Not everyone has the option of finding what works for them. Many people are issued or mandated to use a particular handgun and have to make it work. However, that assumes a handgun that has passed objective testing to establish mechanical accuracy and reliability.

It works for me it’s fine when it’s only your ass on the line. If I have to depend on you as part of a team then you overlooking the flaws of your pet handgun because you’re a fan boy is unacceptable.

[CWM11B]

The question posed in this thread was whether one would trust the 320, not hate it. The majority of critical posts I've read here are from first hand experience, and a lot of it from folks who are responsible for veritable fleets of the things, not personally owned samples of one. I dont hate Sig, I dont hate the 320. I don't trust them. Big difference. There are six classic P series in my safe. Used to be 10, and there was a time I recommended them whole heartedly. If I had to carry my 226 or 228, it would be without hesitation. If i had to carry a brand new Sig, I would opt for a 2022 (and pray they are still as solid as they were when I was issued one).

On the 320, the company lied. People got hurt. They covered it up. I've been lied to by the company more than once under the current leadership. It is far more complex to maintain at the unit/armorer level than a Glock or M&P. The 320s FCU has damn near as many parts as the two I mentioned do in total. I've seen one that took a roll in a sand creek during a post foot chase fight. It was frozen and had to be detail stripped to get it back in action. Would have sucked if the officer had to shoot it prior to getting it to an armorer.

As far as famous (in the firearms world) endorsing it, Bruce Gray (whose work I've seen, and was considering for my P series) pimped this gun HARD. So much so that when the issues surfaced he went on several internet rants, accused the folks who discovered the flaws of being liars, and quickly devolved into childish behavior. He ate a ton of crow, has virtually disappeared from online posting, and I suspect his business has suffered. I dont hate him either (never met him) but he's no longer under my consideration for work because of his behavior. Kyle Lamb is pushing them now. I have all of his videos, published works, and have actually met him. I also know a couple of guys in his former community pretty well who have nothing but respect for him, and so do I. I will jump at any chance to train with him, but I wont take his suggestion of buying a 320 (or 365, he pushes them too).

Whether the gun is "fixed" is moot to me. There are plenty of other platforms available that are more than capable of the task at hand. The trust is gone, and it will take a lot for them to re-earn it. Luckily, now I get to choose. For almost my entire LE career I did not, and absolutely had no choice in the military. Brand loyalty is fine, and I will give it myself, until the brand no longer deserves it. FWIW, Sig had that from me for over a decade, and then they didn't. And neither will my current provider should the product performance decline or the corporate ethics take a dump.