Would you trust a P320?

[KevH]

My previous answer was a simple, “No.”

Let me expand on that a bit.

I own several older P series SIG pistols and have owned (and let go) a bunch more. I watched, much to my dismay, as quality plummeted in the mid-2000’s and had a front seat watching neighboring agencies (one in particular) receive an entire lot (110 pistols I believe) of new P220R’s in 2009 to replace their mid-1990’s P220’s only to have that entire batch replaced within a couple months because of broken parts (particularly the takedown levers). Within a year this previously die-hard SIG agency had been burned so bad that they ditched SIG all together and went to Glock 21’s (they now Glock 17’s).

While all this was happening SIG repeatedly changed their customer service/sales structure for LE. Locally, we have had the same excellent Glock factory rep since the 2006 or so. The guy before him we had for at least a decade before that. S&W? Same guy has been our rep since at least 2006 (he worked for Glock before that). They always answer the phone and they typically show up fast when there is an issue. SIG? We’re at a dozen or more guys in the same time period. I know when dealing with Glock or S&W when I have an issue either the factory rep will show up in person and fix it or they will send me a tag to make shipping easy. I’ll send it to the factory and have the gun back fixed within a week or two. I can’t even get parts for some SIG models from the factory any more.

As a side note, I work for a S&W agency. We issued 659’s, then 5906’s, then the abomination of a gun the SW99, followed by the M&P 40, and now the M&P 9. I can tell you, without reservation, that they are an excellent company for an LE agency to do business with and they stand by their product. So much so that the company gave us (yes, for free) the M&P 40’s to replace the SW99’s. As an armorer I can tell you the M&P line (and the Glock) are easy to maintain and require very little maintenance and will continue to function even when they probably shouldn’t. It’s nice to know your gun will work when needed.

I’ve met Bruce Gray personally and own a couple guns worked over by him from back when he was in the Elk Grove/Sacramento area and have gone to a couple classes taught by Kyle Lamb. I like Bruce a lot, but I think he was done dirty a bit by SIG. He helped develop the platform and SIG’s production certainly didn’t quite meet his expectations. I think he took it all a bit personally and will leave it at that. Kyle Lamb is a sponsored shooter. He was sponsored previously by S&W and helped sell their products and now he’s sponsored by SIG. That’s just business and you have to realize it for what it is.

I won’t even go into the Kimber-esque bazillion variations of the P320 and P365 released and trying to figure out what works with what. If I have to sit and look at date codes to try to figure out if I have gun that will work or not there is a problem and the product should not have been released to the public to begin with.

Is the P320 a bad gun? No, the small sample size I played with I actually liked.

To answer the OP’s question, do I trust the P320 or the company that makes it? Not at all.

For a reliable out of the box gun that I know will work and that I know I will be able to get factory support from I’ll stick with Glock and S&W.

[CWM11B]

KevH's experience pretty much mirrors mine. And a bunch of other dudes in our biz.

[LockedBreech]

Kabooms with factory ammo, issues with rail mounted lights on .40s, weak ejection on early Gen 4 9mms, frisbee test fail, early issues with NYC guns which included one that would fire when the slide was dropped. Seems Glock has had quite a fair share of drama.

For the record, not a Glock hater and frequently carry one.

My official answer to the initial question, is the same I’d give all guns, not at first. For example, I wouldn’t trust an unknown 19, but I’d trust MY 19 because it’s been vetted by me.

A very valid point, thanks for the correction. TG had it right, unless YOUR pistol runs, nothing else matters.

[kcevans]

First hand reports from the founder of this forum and a firearms instructor for an agency that issues a particular gun or not hearsay.

Maybe other places but on PF you have 1) people who actually shoot and 2) people who do this for a living. Along those lines There is a difference between personal choice and objective choice of weapons for everyone in an organization. We have several people here including myself who have experience with the latter. Unfortunately not all information from professional sources can be cited or shared publicly. Issues with the SIG P320 not being dropped safe Were known in certain circles prior to it going public but could not be disclosed due to NDA.

Not everyone has the option of finding what works for them. Many people are issued or mandated to use a particular handgun and have to make it work. However, that assumes a handgun that has passed objective testing to establish mechanical accuracy and reliability.

It works for me it’s fine when it’s only your ass on the line. If I have to depend on you as part of a team then you overlooking the flaws of your pet handgun because you’re a fan boy is unacceptable.

LMAO, Dude, take a pill. Just because statements are questioned is no need to become a jacka##. For your information I have and do shoot regularly, 16 years of military service and shooting an average of 4k to 6k rounds per year does entitle me to ask a question concerning all the hate for the P320 and Sig in general. As for what has been stated on the internet, whether it is this site or any other, I will question it, heck my teenager can post on the internet she can fly the space shuttle, does that make it true?

Depending on me when your ass is on the line, WTF is this, GROW THE F%%K UP. Yes I am a fanboy of the P2## series Sigs and have been for years and will not apologize for it.

[HCM]

LMAO, Dude, take a pill. Just because statements are questioned is no need to become a jacka##. For your information I have and do shoot regularly, 16 years of military service and shooting an average of 4k to 6k rounds per year does entitle me to ask a question concerning all the hate for the P320 and Sig in general. As for what has been stated on the internet, whether it is this site or any other, I will question it, heck my teenager can post on the internet she can fly the space shuttle, does that make it true?

Depending on me when your ass is on the line, WTF is this, GROW THE F%%K UP. Yes I am a fanboy of the P2## series Sigs and have been for years and will not apologize for it.

SIG, the company, has earned the hate.

It was a general statement but Thank God I don’t have to depend on a POS like you.

[kcevans]

SIG, the company, has earned the hate.

It was a general statement but Thank God I don’t have to depend on a POS like you.

LOL, Dido for you too Bro.

[JBP55]

Here is my take. Sig, at one point, made fantastic quality P series pistols. The Glock, and other polymer pistols, put Sig at a price disadvantage, and Sig tried to compete by cheapening the P series. That didn’t go well, because the quality of the P series pistols suffered, and these pistols, even cheapened, were still too expensive to comepete with strikers. Sig’s polymer DA/SA pistols were pretty good, but the market wanted strikers. The 250 intro didn’t go well. All of that, caused people through direct experience, or from what they learned through whatever predated the “gun internet” to sour (sorry) on Sig. Sig’s CEO became a controversial figure, who was easy to dislike.

Sig was trying to survive, and that caused them to innovate. Without the luxury of other successful product lines to allow them to be patient, they pushed a number of “Gen 1” products out the door, like the 320 and MPX, using customers as their beta testers. The products have gotten a lot better, but early adopters got burned. Either through oversight or willful negligence, the 320 had a problem where it would fire when dropped at a certain angle. Sig certainly learned of it before the “collective we,” but it is unclear whether they tried to hide behind “drop safe per industry standards,” or hoped the problem was isolated enough they could slide through it.

As to the 320 design, my wife and many friends are shooting the crap out of them in daily or nearly daily sessions as USPSA CO pistols. Other than needing a periodic spray cleaning of the FCU, there is no trend of problems with them. The latest Gen MPX is much better. The current 365 and 365 XL pistols are mostly good. The Sig optics are still a work in process, but in fairness so is most every other red dot product. The Cross rifle is very interesting.

Sig is an easy company to hate, especially by folks that are not using and enjoying their products. Most people using Sig firearms are less vocal than those hating on Sig.

What is your take on the Sig P320 Professional Model L320CA-9-BXR3-PRO sold to Military and LEA supposedly made on a separate production line?
Mags made in Italy with square notch on bottom.

[GJM]

What is your take on the Sig P320 Professional Model L320CA-9-BXR3-PRO sold to Military and LEA supposedly made on a separate production line?
Mags made in Italy with square notch on bottom.

I don’t know anything about that model, but my wife and I have been using MecGar mags, whenever possible with Sig pistols. That started with the P series years ago.

While I like all sorts of handguns, Glock strikers and HK hammer guns are my own go to, in terms of trust. For Glock, the 43X and Gen 4 9mm models, and for HK, the USP FS and HK45C. With the popularity of the 320 Legion, that model is accumulating many rounds in practice and competition. I suspect between that, and the military, we will have a good idea of how the 320 is doing fairly soon.

[psalms144.1]

What is your take on the Sig P320 Professional Model L320CA-9-BXR3-PRO sold to Military and LEA supposedly made on a separate production line?
Mags made in Italy with square notch on bottom.

No matter the SKU, the guns are all made with the same parts, by the same folks, unless there's a contract specifying something special (MHS pistols have coatings on some parts that aren't on commercial P320s, for instance).

[Alpha Sierra]

supposedly made on a separate production line

An empty phrase