Would you trust a P320?

[JonInWA]

I wonder what the odds are of those 101s making it to the surplus market...

Ruger recently provided brand new ones to the market, 3" with a lanyard loop incorporated into the butt. Best, Jon

[LockedBreech]

Ruger recently provided brand new ones to the market, 3" with a lanyard loop incorporated into the butt. Best, Jon

I'm just a sucker for former police guns of quixotic make. Thanks for the 411 though, neat that's available as a factory option.

Sorry for the thread drift OP.

[Joe in PNG]

I'm in the "trust no gun until it's had a couple of hundred rounds go through, and been through a shooting match" camp.

Personally, I put plastic Sigs in the same bracket as Kimber or Remlin. I'd take a free one, but wouldn't spend money to get one.

[zpelletier]

To answer the opening question only, yes. Like with any other model from any other company, buy two, shoot a couple cases each through both. One for carry, one for practice and training.

For example, even though I was part of the pre-order for the LTT 92 Compacts/Centurions, I'm still currently carrying a full-size because I still haven't finished vetting the new guns yet. That may take a while through to next year since my budget has taken the holiday hit, but that's okay.

I did have a couple of the earlier P320s that had to go through the voluntary. I ended up going to other guns for different reasons, but they were still okay.

I think the standard practice would be to test every gun with a couples cases of ammo, no matter what it is. No company is perfect and if you’re going to trust your life to it you should test it for reliability. But at the same time I don’t think it’s reasonable to drop it hundred times in hundred different ways to see if it will fire when dropped.

[OlongJohnson]

Ruger recently provided brand new ones to the market, 3" with a lanyard loop incorporated into the butt. Best, Jon

If it had the drift-adjustable rear sight that some of the older SP101s have, I'd probably own one already.

[CWM11B]

[QUOTE=zpelletier;959735]I think the standard practice would be to test every gun with a couples cases of ammo, no matter what it is. No company is perfect and if you’re going to trust your life to it you should test it for reliability. But at the same time I don’t think it’s reasonable to drop it hundred times in hundred different ways to see if it will fire when dropped.[/QUOTE

Would you feel the same way if you took a bullet through the leg like the cop in CT did? His got dropped once. The re-creation I saw wasn't dropped nearly 100 times or 100 ways. Like I've said before, I dont care what folks buy or carry. But the emotional attachment to these tools never ceases to amaze me. If my carry gun craps out and the company lies to me about it, or all of a sudden their QC takes a dump, I'll move on to another platform. If Sig had admitted the problem, issued a recall, fixed the issue, and didnt give folks the run around I'd have a positive I've opinion of them because shit does indeed happen. Sig didnt (and doesnt) own up to these situations and hasn't for at least a decade.

[JonInWA]

I get the impression that some companies haven't quite realized the immediacy of the effect of information flow from the internet, or that there are respected forums/sites that truly do have credibility that resonates.

SIG, and with Bruce Gray attaching himself as self-inflicted collateral damage, has fallen victim to that. It's a hard road back, and requires genuinely good products, excellence in the entire manufacturing process, customer support, and transparent honesty and accountability.

Ideally, the P320 issues and hiccups have successfully been identified and systemically and individually fixed. Assuming that's the case, credibility next falls on QC, and on customer support and reputation.

My personal P320 was a fortuitous win from a NSSF contest. My contacts with SIG in its acquisition and subsequent amicable upgrading of my winning with the SIG exec attached as my point of contact were exceptionally pleasant and effective. The SIG executive that I dealt with throughout the process was very knowledgeable, savvy and accommodating; to me, that's a very good sign of corporate health. My personal P320 RX Compact has run impeccably to date, and so far I think it's a very good basic gun and overall package.

As Todd G famously pointed out, EVERY company has warts if you dig deeply enough. Hopefully, SIG has learned; we'll see.

Or. if they're driven by a pure bean-counter mentality, that will eventually come back to bite them. My impression is that the bulk of profits comes from retail purchases, not governmental/LEO contracts, and the retail gun buyer has more potential information for decision-making than ever before.

Best, Jon

[TGS]

My impression is that the bulk of profits comes from retail purchases, not governmental/LEO contracts, and the retail gun buyer has more potential information for decision-making than ever before.

That's a point that Todd had made about government contracts in general. Everyone thinks they're so lucrative, but even the largest government contract possible is still much smaller than the potential of the commercial market. A quick example is the 19X, which sold over 100,000 units in the first 180 days of sales......regardless of Glock losing the MHS contract.

I'm curious how much they've sold on the commercial market to date. The Glock 19X's biggest government contract so far, IIRC, is 104 pistols.

[zpelletier]

Would you feel the same way if you took a bullet through the leg like the cop in CT did? His got dropped once. The re-creation I saw wasn't dropped nearly 100 times or 100 ways. Like I've said before, I dont care what folks buy or carry. But the emotional attachment to these tools never ceases to amaze me. If my carry gun craps out and the company lies to me about it, or all of a sudden their QC takes a dump, I'll move on to another platform. If Sig had admitted the problem, issued a recall, fixed the issue, and didnt give folks the run around I'd have a positive I've opinion of them because shit does indeed happen. Sig didnt (and doesnt) own up to these situations and hasn't for at least a decade.

I think you misunderstood what I meant. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that most people buy a pistol and take it home and start dropping it to see what happens. I think in general most people trust that the companies producing these guns have done their own testing and are confident in what they are buying. But my original question I guess was more intended to be about trusting SIG as a company than trusting a specific pistol. I feel like SIG isn’t trustworthy and hasn’t fully tested their products before they release them. And when problems did arise they were not forthcoming about it, thus proving that they can’t be trusted.

Do you guys drop your guns over and over to see what happens?

[JonInWA]

My guess is that the G45 has slighter greater potential for LEO sales in the G19X/G45 niche, based simply on the black vs. coyote finish. Additionally, the G19X is self limiting to a degree, in that due to the frontstrap lip (an offshoot of the MHS contract specs) while it can use earlier magazines (and the coyote-colored G19X magazines) with the shorter baseplate front protrusion, it can't use Gen5 magazines-that could be an issue with interchangeability in the future. The G45 (and other Gen5 Glocks) can use both magazine baseplate types.

I suspect that while few contract-specific LEO sales have resulted for the 19X, I'll bet a p-f dollar that it's seen success in being listed as an approved gun for officer private purchase by departments.

Best, Jon