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Thread: Would you trust a P320?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    That has been standard and practice since since the mid 1990s when we adopted the Beretta 96D Brigadier but I donít necessarily agree with it. Other than the HK USP Compact, which were beasts, 10k rounds was an unrealistic service life for .40 cal pistols to go without PMCS. Our P229s were breaking takedown levers at 6-7k. The breakages stopped when the recoil springs were changed En-mass. Prior to the 229 we issued a weapons record book and required individual users to keep round counts on all duty weapons.

    The 250 round intervals are based on the average minimum rounds extended during quarterly training and qualification.
    Nice to have resources! Our SWAT guys would be switching guns twice a year on that schedule. Our armorers have gotten better at educating our high round counts shooters on preventative maintenance. We've been breaking the 226 .40s at an accelerated rate.....cracking the frames under the grip, right side under the tang. Sig had modified the frame here to have one frame to accommodate both the traditional and DAK trigger bar, which required removing some metal. Apparently created a weak point which is showing up on our .40s. The newer guns, after they discontinued the DAK system, are beefier in that area. But we've broken everything that can be broken on a P series gun....even locking blocks.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    Nice to have resources! Our SWAT guys would be switching guns twice a year on that schedule. Our armorers have gotten better at educating our high round counts shooters on preventative maintenance. We've been breaking the 226 .40s at an accelerated rate.....cracking the frames under the grip, right side under the tang. Sig had modified the frame here to have one frame to accommodate both the traditional and DAK trigger bar, which required removing some metal. Apparently created a weak point which is showing up on our .40s. The newer guns, after they discontinued the DAK system, are beefier in that area. But we've broken everything that can be broken on a P series gun....even locking blocks.
    The guns that hit 10k or break are either re-built or converted into Red guns or blue SIMS guns.

    Itís kind of a welfare program for our national armory. We have a field Armorer program and try to keep the guns of SRT guys etc properly maintained. The most common issue has been the takedown levers which goes away when the recoils paring is changed. However, Iíve had at least one SRT guy (who should have known better) who ran a 229 to about 25k without a recoil spring change and broke the nose off the spring box on the slide. Havenít seen many frame cracks in the 229 DAKs.

    If yíall are looking at P320s see if they can get you one of the DHS SKU models. They are the ones we issue and the only ones authorized for POW carry. My understanding is the primary difference is the internals have the same coatings as the actual M17/18 gunís. I can tell you I have seen multiple issues with commercial P320s including my own two expels but the GOV contract guns have been 100% so far. If Glock can supply M models to state and local LE agencies SIG should be motivated do the same with the DHS SKU.
    Last edited by HCM; 01-04-2020 at 06:50 PM.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    The guns that hit 10k or break are either re-built or converted into Red guns or blue SIMS guns.

    Itís kind of a welfare program for our national armory. We have a field Armorer program and try to keep the guns of SRT guys etc properly maintained. The most common issue has been the takedown levers which goes away when the recoils paring is changed. However, Iíve had at least one SRT guy (who should have known better) who ran a 229 to about 25k without a recoil spring change and broke the nose off the spring box on the slide. Havenít seen many frame cracks in the 229 DAKs.

    If yíall are looking at P320s see if they can get you one of the DHS SKU models. They are the ones we issue and the only ones authorized for POW carry. My understanding is the primary difference is the internals have the same coatings as the actual M17/18 gunís. I can tell you I have seen multiple issues with commercial P320s including my own two expels but the GOV contract guns have been 100% so far. If Glock can supply M models to state and local LE agencies SIG should be motivated do the same with the DHS SKU.
    Sig has indicated a willingness to work with us on building exactly what we want in terms of feature set. Not sure if the LE 320 Pro series guns also have the milspec internal coatings or not. They are nice shooting, accurate pistols, and the samples I've seen have been 100% reliable so far....but this is over the course of a few thousand rounds only. Not at all sure how they'll fare at 20,000 rounds.

    On a separate but related note.....the M&P 2.0 we have for T&E ran for 17 rounds without a hitch....with a Sig 320 mag mistakenly loaded into it by a non shooter officer. Didn't lock back the slide on empty, but shot without a hitch. Nice.

  4. #184
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    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 01-04-2020 at 07:10 PM.
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  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    Sig has indicated a willingness to work with us on building exactly what we want in terms of feature set. Not sure if the LE 320 Pro series guns also have the milspec internal coatings or not. They are nice shooting, accurate pistols, and the samples I've seen have been 100% reliable so far....but this is over the course of a few thousand rounds only. Not at all sure how they'll fare at 20,000 rounds.

    On a separate but related note.....the M&P 2.0 we have for T&E ran for 17 rounds without a hitch....with a Sig 320 mag mistakenly loaded into it by a non shooter officer. Didn't lock back the slide on empty, but shot without a hitch. Nice.

    Thatís a great story. lol

    We are getting a new chief. As of now there is no issued pistol and you can carry almost anything you want.

    My concern is that this will change. Hopefully it doesnít but if it does, then I am rooting for the M&P 2.0 or Gen 5 Glock.
    Last edited by TheNewbie; 01-04-2020 at 07:12 PM.

  6. #186
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    If yíall are looking at P320s see if they can get you one of the DHS SKU models. They are the ones we issue and the only ones authorized for POW carry. My understanding is the primary difference is the internals have the same coatings as the actual M17/18 gunís. I can tell you I have seen multiple issues with commercial P320s including my own two expels but the GOV contract guns have been 100% so far. If Glock can supply M models to state and local LE agencies SIG should be motivated do the same with the DHS SKU.
    I have a friend who is a serious Sig LE dealer. The DHS guns are locked up tighter than a nun's ass.

    Request needs to come from an ICE e-mail address per Proven Outfitters.
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  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    I have a friend who is a serious Sig LE dealer. The DHS guns are locked up tighter than a nun's ass.

    Request needs to come from an ICE e-mail address per Proven Outfitters.
    There are two designated distributors for ice officers to buy personally owned DHS SKU POW. Iím well aware of that. That is for individuals. It has nothing to do with what Iím talking about.

    2200 guns is enough for SIG to make whatever they want.

    If need be they can assign it a new SKU number and sell it to AMCís PD as the AMC PD SKU gun.
    Last edited by HCM; 01-04-2020 at 11:39 PM.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    There are two designated distributors for ice officers to buy personally owned DHS SKU POW. Iím well aware of that. That is for individuals. It has nothing to do with what Iím talking about.

    2200 guns is enough for SIG to make whatever they want.

    If need be they can assign it a new SKU number and sell it to AMCís PD as the AMC PD SKU gun.
    That is exactly what we were discussing. Same thing we did with our P226's. 2200+ guns is enough for some extra consideration when you buy. But who knows.....we may get stuck with Ruger SR9's. Our city's purchasing folks flat out don't understand that buying guns and ammunition is not like buying light bulbs and toilet paper at Costco. You can't just buy the Kirkland store brand.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by AMC View Post
    That is exactly what we were discussing. Same thing we did with our P226's. 2200+ guns is enough for some extra consideration when you buy. But who knows.....we may get stuck with Ruger SR9's. Our city's purchasing folks flat out don't understand that buying guns and ammunition is not like buying light bulbs and toilet paper at Costco. You can't just buy the Kirkland store brand.
    A mysterious roll (different brand) of what seems to be soiled toilet paper appeared in the men's restroom. No one has touched it yet, though I am thinking of gloving up and disposing of the disturbing object.


    Back on topic....


    Are your P226s DAK or DA/SA? Are DAK guns even an agency option now?

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNewbie View Post
    A mysterious roll (different brand) of what seems to be soiled toilet paper appeared in the men's restroom. No one has touched it yet, though I am thinking of gloving up and disposing of the disturbing object.


    Back on topic....


    Are your P226s DAK or DA/SA? Are DAK guns even an agency option now?
    They are DA/SA. I don't believe DAK is any kind of option for a new gun at this point. I believe Sig stopped manufacturing DAK guns. We were very seriously looking at just going to 9mm P226's. No conversion course, same holsters and mag pouches, etc. Trying to deal with Sig on that plan was less than ideal. They very clearly don't want to be selling agencies the P series classic guns anymore. Sad because a legacy slide P226 9mm with an SRT is a badass gun.

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