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Thread: Tesla Truck

  1. #101
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    Which also means it's going to be an MF'er to fix at the body shop. Getting hit by another vehicle is way tougher than a sledge hammer. I also wonder how they get away without meeting gov't safety standards. Do they get a pass because they're electric? I know that the Toyota Prius got a free pass on safety back in the day.
    The prototype doesn't have to meet any standards, it's just a prototype. There's a cutoff for how many vehicles can be manufactured without crash testing, etc. but I don't recall it off the top of my head. Something like 300, maybe? (Quick Google says it's currently 325 cars).

    As far as the Prius getting a "free pass", I don't know anything about that. Here's the NHTSA results from the first year it was available in the US: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2001/T...IUS/4%252520DR second year: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2002/T...atings-frontal etc. What pass did it get?
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  2. #102

    I could be FoS, but...

    I always seem to end up wondering what exactly a Tesla is. I will admit to thinking it was all a bunch of bullshit, then a couple of years ago I had a job related reason to study up on them and have started to revise my opinion, somewhat.

    For some people having a gas station in their house could make a lotta sense, and having a 200mi daily range would be more than adequate. But those people would have to have options for when they actually drive extended distances, and I think spending an hour or so every 150mi or so is not going to be tolerable by people that travel more than 200mi a day with any frequency. I can comfortably take my 340mi range car down to 40mi left without much anxiety, because around here in the Midwest there are multiple stations at every exit. Instead of building my trip around getting a charge, I pick the station that is in the quadrant that is going to make it easiest to get back on the highway or where I think I am going to get the best coffee. But on many days I start out full, make one sales call in the morning, and then just go all the way home.

    Not sure about some of our comparisons to the typical mileage amassed on common IC trucks, because something that has to get parked every couple hundred miles is not going to rack up that kind of mileage unless it is used by some kind of split shift. Add in the hauling or towing that is going to be the life of a work truck, and does one guy need more than one truck to get through a work day?

    And it seems like the dude won’t stay in his lane, are his cars an electric alternative, or cars that drive themselves? Or trucks that you can hit with a hammer? IMO he is benefiting from being a low production prestige brand, where his disciples flock to him with $100 every time he does a PowerPoint. The joke used to be that Best Buy was the Amazon showroom, I think he is risking just being a proof statement for a concept. IMO he should be focused on building as many cars as he can sell as soon as he can, because if a lot of people start buying them, he is going to have a lot of competition in a big hurry. Compared to the complexities of designing and building IC engines and their required transmissions, how hard is it going to be for Ford or Volkswagen to order up a shitload of 18650s and a few motors and mandate all of their existing brick and mortar stores pull 20-30 wires through the wall? And they will have plenty of headcount to retire some guys out that used to design combustion chambers and transaxles and add some software guys and let the body guys figure out how to stuff cells anywhere nobody is putting their feet. And instead of putting $100 down to get in line in case the thing gets built someday, you just stop at the store on your way home from breakfast and buy one.

    Also, I remember when we learned the hard way that if we put our cell phones in the outside pockets of our snowmobile jackets that they would need charged at the first place we stopped at, and when you have to share the range with cabin comfort it will be another hit. Just read this:
    https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-happ...can-1832151810
    and most people are not going to be cool (see what I did there?) with parking 1/2mi away in the winter.

    And if there is an even greater demand for the minerals the batteries are made from those costs are going to go predictably up while the cost of oil has been stable. And would any of this really be happening without government incentives and outright requirements in some areas?

    OTOH, I could be FoS…
    Last edited by mmc45414; 12-01-2019 at 09:49 AM.

  3. #103
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    I always seem to end up wondering what exactly a Tesla is.
    My opinion has long been that it's a showcase for battery technology with a side of solar. I think Musk's long game is batteries and the car business is just a way to further that while getting some return on the investments of R&D, publicity, etc.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    The prototype doesn't have to meet any standards, it's just a prototype. There's a cutoff for how many vehicles can be manufactured without crash testing, etc. but I don't recall it off the top of my head. Something like 300, maybe? (Quick Google says it's currently 325 cars).

    As far as the Prius getting a "free pass", I don't know anything about that. Here's the NHTSA results from the first year it was available in the US: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2001/T...IUS/4%252520DR second year: https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2002/T...atings-frontal etc. What pass did it get?
    I was operating from memory on a vehicle rescue class I took in 2001 about electric cars that focused on batter safety and the fact that while the car seemed to be not running, a tap of the "gas" pedal could still move the car. It seems simple, but it was a serious deal for firefighter/rescue techs back then. I should have Googled it. It didn't fair to well in those tests, though, compared to many vehicles out at that point.

    As touched on in another post. Cold temps are an issue with battery powered cars right now. One of my customers has one of the first Tesla roadsters. It gets parked when temps dip into the high 30's because its range is reduced to the point he can't make the round trip to the city and he learned the hard way that a patch of ice in that roadster is hard to handle. He also was one of the first to crash one on icy roads. It had to be shipped to Seattle to get fixed. He says Tesla has made huge strides in electronic traction control on the cars made after his, so that's not a big issue. They still haven't gotten over how to build and maintain heat to defrost windows and keep occupants warm without reducing range though.

  5. #105
    Revolvers Revolvers 1911s Stephanie B's Avatar
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    It's somewhat like looking at both the cars and the guns that were made around the tun of the last century, when inventors were trying out lots of ideas with no real direction as to how things would shake out. Remember that cars and trucks weren't terribly practical outside of urban areas until the distribution system for gasoline was established. Before that happened, you were still sort of stuck with either horses or trains.

    I imagine it'll be well into the thirties before we see how this shakes out.
    If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    My opinion has long been that it's a showcase for battery technology with a side of solar. I think Musk's long game is batteries and the car business is just a way to further that while getting some return on the investments of R&D, publicity, etc.
    Which goes to fund R&D for SpaceX

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    My opinion has long been that it's a showcase for battery technology with a side of solar. I think Musk's long game is batteries and the car business is just a way to further that while getting some return on the investments of R&D, publicity, etc.
    And I think he is buying batteries from Panasonic? And pretty sure they will sell batteries to other car companies if they want to buy them, so I dunno about that plan. That is probably another issue for him, if he is right, there are dozens of other companies that already know how to make vehicles, and just have to swap powertrains. Making a big deal out of 200k deposits on the truck, when that is probably domestic production of pickups in any given month. But that would support his idea of building a bunch of other unique features into them, but I wonder if people will buy his because you can hit it with a hammer if you can go down the street and come home today with an electric F-150 alternative?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeep45238 View Post
    Which goes to fund R&D for SpaceX
    And there are not dozens of companies already selling into the rocket ship market space, so probably a good idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie B View Post
    I imagine it'll be well into the thirties before we see how this shakes out.
    Yup...

    Gotta go, Sunday's are for pistols

    ETA: But for just $100 you could have something cool to talk about at cocktail parties for the next 12-24 months!
    Last edited by mmc45414; 12-01-2019 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    And I think he is buying batteries from Panasonic? And pretty sure they will sell batteries to other car companies if they want to buy them, so I dunno about that plan. That is probably another issue for him, if he is right, there are dozens of other companies that already know how to make vehicles, and just have to swap powertrains. Making a big deal out of 200k deposits on the truck, when that is probably domestic production of pickups in any given month. But that would support his idea of building a bunch of other unique features into them, but I wonder if people will buy his because you can hit it with a hammer if you can go down the street and come home today with an electric F-150 alternative?


    And there are not dozens of companies already selling into the rocket ship market space, so probably a good idea.
    Currently Panasonic is the battery supplier, but there's also several Tesla battery plants under development to get rid of that weak point. Tesla does have the performance electric powertrain developed much better than any mainstream auto manufacturer, but you're right they don't have the chassis R&D over the decades to go with it. Maybe that's a strong point for them though as they aren't tied into existing workflows and tooling.

    As far as SpaceX goes, they're the only private company that can launch to the ISS, has the largest developed man-rated module, has done things previously never thought possible with space launches, and is the only private company to have DoD contracts for payloads.
    The ULA is a government forced, very slow, very expensive co-op.

  9. #109
    Modding this sack of shit BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmc45414 View Post
    And I think he is buying batteries from Panasonic?
    More Panasonic makes components for the batteries Tesla makes. Panasonic manufacturers the battery cells (and does joint R&D), which Tesla purchases and then uses to make the batteries at Gigafactory 1. IIRC it's the same for his home energy projects, power wall. I don't know if he makes the solar panels in house or buys them.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  10. #110
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Also, I remember when we learned the hard way that if we put our cell phones in the outside pockets of our snowmobile jackets that they would need charged at the first place we stopped at, and when you have to share the range with cabin comfort it will be another hit. Just read this:
    https://jalopnik.com/heres-what-happ...can-1832151810
    and most people are not going to be cool (see what I did there?) with parking 1/2mi away in the winter.
    Just read that link. It pointed out that the gov't in Canada is hell bent on supporting that tech. Not so much here for cars in the US. Although solar is being supported for residential and commercial buildings by the power companies (public utilities) by credit for reduced use of grid electricity. That works without batteries because the power generated by solar can be monitored by reverse flow meters at the users site. The cost of grid electricity is substantially reduced. I have a relative that works for a company that sells solar to residential and commercial users.

    As a matter of fact the use of electric vehicles is being discouraged around here because soon we will be taxed on miles driven and not actual fuel consumption. That's really pissing a lot of people off because one of the reasons to buy an electric vehicle is to avoid buying gasoline and paying the tax placed on the fuel. What has happened is there are so many electric vehicles on the road now the state is seeing its tax revenue from the use of fossil fuel dropping off at an alarming rate. If a person is taxed at miles driven instead of gallons purchased at the pump the revenue will return. Two of my three neighbors own electric vehicles. One owns a Tesla and the other a Prius. One of my relatives leases a Porsche Taycan. He doesn't keep it in his garage because the charging station had to be installed outside. He doesn't care because the winters are mild here and it's a company lease anyway.

    The drop off of fuel taxes will be a another problem for electric vehicle sales soon. EV is economical now because people are dodging the fuel tax but when the fed and local governments wake up to the revenue loss for infrastructure it won't look like such a good deal. You will either pay the tax when you purchase the vehicle or pay it as you drive.

    https://www.consumerreports.org/hybr...ith-high-fees/
    Last edited by Borderland; 12-01-2019 at 01:36 PM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.

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