.38 Special Snubby Ammo - Findings, Thoughts and Impressions

[Chuck Haggard]

I think I'm down to my last few rat-holed Federal Nyclad 125 "Chief's Special" 125 grain loads from the 1990's. I just like them because they are decent to shoot and the hollow point is huge and maybe might expand. Gold Dot short barrel loads are replacing them and I use some generic 148 wadcutters for practice. POI hasn't been a problem at the short ranges I've used them for.

After having tested those I was never a fan. When they expanded they tended to under penetrate rather badly, like 6-7" in gelatin. They often failed to expand through heavy clothing. Weirdly enough they would still under penetrate sometimes even then.

[Chuck Haggard]

Actually, from what I've read, a 200-grain .38 Special at about 600 fps from a snubbie was a thing for a while.

Attachment 46410

One of my old chiefs bounced two of those off of a bad guy's face one day, from a 4" model 10.

They were also famous being completely unable to penetrate car doors, windshields, etc.

The blunt nose shape made them very stable so they stayed nose forward during penetration, and slid through tissue with minimal disruption vs crushing it. I've shot rabbits with that round and they were unimpressed. I quickly quit using them even for that job because wounding the bunnies is inhumane.

[Jhp147]

After having tested those I was never a fan. When they expanded they tended to under penetrate rather badly, like 6-7" in gelatin. They often failed to expand through heavy clothing. Weirdly enough they would still under penetrate sometimes even then.

Appreciate the info. I think I mostly hoped they would expand based on the marketing at the time and the size of the hole. Guess I should finish them off in practice and put the modern stuff in place.

[camsdaddy]

One of my old chiefs bounced two of those off of a bad guy's face one day, from a 4" model 10.

They were also famous being completely unable to penetrate car doors, windshields, etc.

The blunt nose shape made them very stable so they stayed nose forward during penetration, and slid through tissue with minimal disruption vs crushing it. I've shot rabbits with that round and they were unimpressed. I quickly quit using them even for that job because wounding the bunnies is inhumane.

Have you shot animals with a standard wadcutter?

[Lester Polfus]

Have you shot animals with a standard wadcutter?

Not Chuck, but I have found .38 wadcutters to work great on rabbit and grouse sized game. This is one of the reasons why a 4” .357 is such a great all around outdoors gun.h

[Chuck Haggard]

Have you shot animals with a standard wadcutter?

Yes, quite a few. Rabbits mostly, but also squirrels, prairie dogs, gophers, racoons, and have put down several injured deer with them.

Small game has a distinct bang-flop effect where RNL leaves them running away.

CCI markets the SGB loading for small game, it's the Small Game Bullet, basically a flat nose .22lr 40gr high velocity solid. It also works better on small game than RN.

I believe that bullet size vs target size, on small game there is enough extra temp cavity to make a significant difference in incapacitation.

Temporary cavity effects are often looked at in just the gel blocks, when they need to be considered relative to the target. We know that something like a .22Hornet will blow a prairie dog in half out to 200 yards, drop a coyote in his tracks with a good hit, not so much with a bad hit, but if you shoot a cape buffalo with one then you're about to have a very bad day.


My other reason for favoring WCs for low recoil snub work is reading and training with Jim Cirillo. As Jim noted, and I've seen numerous times in real life, RN bullets often glance off of skulls.

I've shot a number of deer with Remington WCs. From a 642 they "stick" when they hit the skull, leave a large entry wound, don't exit, and pulp the brain. Instant lights out. On double lung shots I've noted that on the entry side WCs through a rib (deer ribs are much large and more robust that people ribs for anyone who hasn't seen one) make a splintered hole large than the bullet, will penetrate all the way through, have enough energy to penetrate the rib on the far side and get stuck under the skin. JHPs that I've made similar shots with, like Critical Defense, tend to leave a bullet sized clean hole in the rib on the entry side, like it's been hit with a drill bit.

I've seen very, very few JHPs actually expand from a snub. Even one's designed for that use. Many old school loads, such as the 110gr +P+, that do expand fail to penetrate nearly enough for my comfort.

[DocGKR]

Well said! Folks, pay attention to what Chuck stated above.

[Super77]

For those interested it looks like Modway has the HST Micro projectiles for sale as components:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022626550?pid=683238

[SCCY Marshal]

For those interested it looks like Modway has the HST Micro projectiles for sale as components:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022626550?pid=683238

Good lookin' out! Just ordered 500. Will play with a few in .357 brass for fun and then try velocity matching the rest to Federal's factory load in .38 brass.

[RevolverRob]

For carry, I'm working through a stash of Speer Gold Dot short barrels, which will probably be my last.

But I've loaded up a couple of hundred Hornady 148-grain hollow-based wadcutters over ~3.5 grains of VV N330 for work out of my 2.5" 638. And I have a thousand more Missouri Bullet Co. coated 148-grain WCs on the way. I'm basically at the point where I don't view anything besides wadcutters as being relevant for carrying in snub-nosed revolvers. In a 3"+ gun, I'll go to a hollowpoint bullet, but sub-3", there isn't any point. They aren't going fast enough to reliably expand AND penetrate.