Yang's $1,000/month UBI Government Payment

[WobblyPossum]

My issue with the UBI idea has always been: Wouldn’t the market just adjust for everyone having $12,000 more every year? Wouldn’t the prices of everything increase and negate the additional income? Also, wouldn’t the companies that have to pay the VAT increase the costs of their products and services so as not to negatively impact their profit margins and piss off their shareholders?

[Darth_Uno]

And once this is in effect, it will never go away. If everybody gets $1000 a month no strings attached, all everyone is going to see is $1000 for free, no matter how the government gets the money to pay for it. Anybody who runs for office and says they want to get rid of it it will have zero chance of going anywhere.

Look at Social Security. I'd wager many Americans would agree in principle that the government should not be involved in the pension business. But when it comes to cutting benefits or abandoning the whole shebang, that's not a good platform to run on. Yes, I know it's a little different because you paid in and now you get "your" money back. Fair enough, and completely understandable. But my point stands.

[blues]

Sadly, far too many people never ask the question "how is the government going to use this Wonderful Idea to screw me?"

Kind of like when the government gave me the opportunity to switch to the "much better" FERS retirement plan. I said "Thanks but no thanks, I'll stay with the shitty old plan."

And I never put the post of duty I actually wanted first on any list.

[BehindBlueI's]

My issue with the UBI idea has always been: Wouldn’t the market just adjust for everyone having $12,000 more every year?

The closest large scale equivalent we could look at in US history would be the introduction of the GI Bill. A lot of people who couldn't afford homes, cars, college education, etc. all of a sudden could. Things did get more expensive, but this was accompanied by the entire economy growing dramatically, more jobs, raised wages, more businesses sprouting, more investment opportunities, etc. Arguably that lead to our modern middle class and the rise of the blue collar worker's economic mobility. It's not an exact duplicate, of course. The economy is different than in that we're a more global economy and make fewer things at home. As such it is probably debatable but I think we'd see a similar effect, just reduced in scope.

I encourage anyone who hasn't done so to read the thread I linked to earlier.

[Joe in PNG]

The closest large scale equivalent we could look at in US history would be the introduction of the GI Bill. A lot of people who couldn't afford homes, cars, college education, etc. all of a sudden could. Things did get more expensive, but this was accompanied by the entire economy growing dramatically, more jobs, raised wages, more businesses sprouting, more investment opportunities, etc. Arguably that lead to our modern middle class and the rise of the blue collar worker's economic mobility. It's not an exact duplicate, of course. The economy is different than in that we're a more global economy and make fewer things at home. As such it is probably debatable but I think we'd see a similar effect, just reduced in scope.

I encourage anyone who hasn't done so to read the thread I linked to earlier.

Then again, one can make the point that the long term of the GI Bill has been negative, as it led to an oversupply of higher education. With that, we have a problem with student loan debt, and the problem of trying to require college degrees for positions where they really aren't needed.

[Cookie Monster]

Stay off the drugs, dude.

Your ability to elevate discussions and provide clear reasoning is unparalleled. Cookie is out.

[TGS]

Your ability to elevate discussions and provide clear reasoning is unparalleled. Cookie is out.

People shit in the street because certain locales have given up on enforcing standards, and even enables them by giving them just enough to get by (sounds familiar).

People do not shit in the street because the US Government fails to give them $1000/month.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[BehindBlueI's]

Then again, one can make the point that the long term of the GI Bill has been negative, as it led to an oversupply of higher education. With that, we have a problem with student loan debt, and the problem of trying to require college degrees for positions where they really aren't needed.

One could have a goose that lays golden eggs and bitch the eggs are hard to stack, as well. One could equally bitch that the GI Bill required tax dollars, or as is fashionable to call it today "wealth redistribution" in order to give the veterans those benefits. I think it's a pretty up hill sell that it was a long term negative, though. There's precious little in the real world that's not a mixture of positive and negatives, much of which is subjective.

[jrm]

Then again, one can make the point that the long term of the GI Bill has been negative, as it led to an oversupply of higher education. With that, we have a problem with student loan debt, and the problem of trying to require college degrees for positions where they really aren't needed.

I seriously doubt that a benefit for services rendered for about 1% of the population is the cause of an over supply of higher education.

[GardoneVT]

Let’s take a step back and look at the problem.

Why do we see poor people? Because some skills are more valued by society then others. That’s life, period.
It is economically and psychologically impossible to change that. Even in a society with no money, the currency simply transitions to something else .

Giving $1,000 to people is simply robbery by the tax code, and everyone of all political beliefs will know it too. That does three bad things- devalues a work ethic (why work for $1,000 if I get it for free), and ruins economic growth for working people- with more cash in circulation , inflation becomes a risk which has to be addressed on a macroeconomic scale. So enjoy higher interest rates, reduced credit availability and higher APRs for everything. Buying a home, starting a business or taking out a loan to pay for that $100k medical bill just went up.

Then there’s the Black Market. More money to unskilled folks = more purchasing power for illegal narcotics, so we’d also be subsidizing cartels.

BTW- as clarification the GI Bill is not a handout or welfare program. It’s an entitlement duly earned by honorable military service, and is thus not a relevant subject to compare with this economically suicidal proposal.