Yang's $1,000/month UBI Government Payment

[GardoneVT]

Social mobility in the US is not as great as we like to think it is.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...awhill_ch3.pdf

It is substantially better then in most countries, some of which forbid upward mobility in practice or by law.

[Baldanders]

It is substantially better then in most countries, some of which forbid upward mobility in practice or by law.

Social mobility in many European countries that many of you would consider dirty commies is higher than the US.

We had a very small middle class before the massive interventions post-WWII by our govt. As we bought the "by-your-bootstraps" horseshit, and rolled back the changes of those years, that middle class has evaporated. It doesn't fucking matter how hard working Americans are, our system is now largely based on Vulture Capitalism that is busy stripping the largesse built during the "commie" years.

The fact that US wages for the vast majority of American workers don't budge an inch, regardless of how low the unemployment rate goes, shows that this is a rigged game. As for the idea that people are just dumb and don't pick the right career path check this story from my family:

My father clawed his way to the top of the corporate pyramid in his career, eventually becoming the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. He took his earnings and put them into the home construction industry. In 2006. Whoops.


Guess where that wealth is now?

My father was involved in long-range economic forecasting for decades. He hob-nobbed with folks like Steve Jobs, he was able to refer to $80 billion deals as "small change." After the housing collapse, he said "I didn't really understand the system."

So the average, or below average American is supposed to see the future and pick a long-term viable career path how?

Oh yeah, we are supposed to go into massive debt and re-train, since America's corporations successfully got rid of any need to pay for training anyone a long time ago. Maybe the job we will re-train for will still be in demand when we are done training. Or not. Then we can die poor, or really fucking poor. Great.

When I see "if everyone had my work ethic and brains, everything would be great for everyone" I read "I don't understand how government or economic policy shapes individual decision making or prosperity, I just like feeling superior--and acknowledging that luck may have had any role in my own prosperity is a truth I cannot face."

Sure, many on the bottom are lazy dumbfucks. This has been true throughout time, all over the globe. No country has gone down the shitter because of a massive outbreak of lazy dipshititis. Many countries have been destroyed by the elites strip-mining the assets of said nation. E.g. : the destruction of the Roman independent farmer by the landlords as they fufilled their military service, which led to huge standing armies with no other possible jobs, and eventually to armies whose allegiance to their general was far greater than their allegiance to the nation.

If you think your brains and work ethic make you poor-proof, you don't understand history in the slightest.

[Joe in PNG]

If memory serves, the Soviet Union, Japan, and Venezuela were reported to have better economies and standards of living in years past.

Much of what many Americans know about Europe is slanted, spun, propagandized, twisted, redacted, and just plain wrong.

[Baldanders]

If memory serves, the Soviet Union, Japan, and Venezuela were reported to have better economies and standards of living in years past.

Much of what many Americans know about Europe is slanted, spun, propagandized, twisted, redacted, and just plain wrong.

Japan has a higher standard of living than the US, and higher individual wealth. Also, they are far happier than us. Have you bought the "Japan on the brink of collapse" narratives?

I can't trust economic data from dictatorships? Datum noted.

Please explain how this graph is the result of Britain, Italy, Sweden and France, "cooking the books."


https://www.economist.com/graphic-de...-their-country

ETA: Much of what Americans know about America is slanted, spun, propagandized, twisted, redacted and perfectly designed to keep everyone who isn't the elite utterly convinced that America's problems percolate up from the bottom up while our saintly job creators suffer the slings and arrows of the poor.

Yes, I have been an (unsuccessful) small business owner. I am not blaming the real job creators (by percentage) for keeping America going.

[Joe in PNG]

Please explain how this graph is the result of Britain, Italy, Sweden and France, "cooking the books."

Question- have you spent any significant time outside of the USA?

Yes, while this graph or that chart may say that this or that place is better, often times you find that the reality on the ground is a lot different.

Even on a national scale, the charts and graphs say that places like NYC or San Francisco are "better" places to live than most of those icky redstate flyover areas- and we pretty much know most of that is BS.

[ranger]

I travel a lot internationally on business. Just got home from Sweden and Germany. I am always happy to come home. You cannot compare some of these European nations with the population of one of our large cities with the entire US - their welfare state is unraveling right now.

[the Schwartz]

We're also pretty dang high on the social mobility ladder already, compared to most of the world and almost all of history.

Americans aren't restricted by caste or class- oh, some may argue that this or that is the same thing, but that's the dramatic over-exaggerations of privilege.

You're right.

In a capitalist system there are always going to be those who fail. Doesn't mean that they have to stay there "at the bottom" though. Plenty of opportunity here in the US if one has the "fire in their belly" to pursue it (go back to school, develop a new career path, etc.). Many who make those dramatic over-exaggerations of privilege are afflicted by sheer laziness and want it all laid in their lap. That is where most of the "socialist" crowd come in; there is nothing more attractive than liberating wealth from those who have made it themselves. Just portray them as "evil billionaires" and the (socialist) masses follow. Funny thing is, if/when the socilaists suddenly or unexpectedly find themselves possessing the magnitude of wealth that they disdained others for possessing, they too become capitalists.

[AKDoug]

Japan has a higher standard of living than the US, and higher individual wealth. Also, they are far happier than us. Have you bought the "Japan on the brink of collapse" narratives?

Uh.. Japan is at 58 on the U.N. "happiness ranking" we're at 19. We also outrank them significantly in standard of living ranking in GDP per person and individual buying power. We also beat them in mean wealth per adult. While they may outrank us in median wealth per adult, living expenses and consumer goods are also more expensive in Japan.

[GardoneVT]

Social mobility in many European countries that many of you would consider dirty commies is higher than the US.

We had a very small middle class before the massive interventions post-WWII by our govt. As we bought the "by-your-bootstraps" horseshit, and rolled back the changes of those years, that middle class has evaporated.......If you think your brains and work ethic make you poor-proof, you don't understand history in the slightest.

If you believe debasing your currency through handouts makes people poor proof, you understand neither history or economics.

[Obelisk]

UBI is an extremely bad idea. Okay imagine Yang managed to become a dictator and got his yang gang bucks out. I can tell you even if he won no way in hell could he get it passed. Let’s assume it indeed passed. A married couple now has $24k extra a year. Let’s assume their rent or current mortgage is $1,000. With that new money they’ll more than likely want to move to a better house with nicer schools. Along with them everyone else will have the same idea. Those houses will now be price adjusted to demand. The home they decide to sell to buy new house will be too. House prices will climb to insane levels. With $2,000 a month you could buy a nice house where I live now, with Yang money you won’t get much. Present home owners would benefit, but new home buyers not so much. In fact I’d expect to see a surge in rentals with insane rents. Why sell properly when you can get rent as home prices are astronomically priced worse than before?

Not only homes, but cars. Demand drives price. Any big ticket item will be pricey as demand climbs. Besides demand we’ll have inflation. Add the 10% National sales tax and VAT and the Yang bucks won’t look so great. In fact the Yang bucks you get back will more than likely just be enough to float your increased taxes, increased prices, and inflation. But $24k for a married couple is still a lot of money in today’s money, I’m just not sure what $24k in Yang era bucks would be worth. What would the purchasing power be?

Let’s talk about the VAT. How many jobs are we going to lose on that alone? We already struggle to compete with Mexico and China with EPA, OSHA, worker’s compensation, social security, Medicaid, Medicare, benefits, and now a VAT? Yang says automation is coming and we’ll have a loss of jobs. Yang is also for open borders which makes no sense as it conflicts his loss of jobs statement. So let in more jobless? A VAT will also injure exports as if our goods aren’t expensive enough already.

I’m calling it now, if it became reality the only ones getting Yang bucks will be fast food workers on your dime.