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Thread: Doubts about 9mm

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I think this is one of those things where some people just won’t believe unless they see the data. The data isn’t publicly available so their options are to take the words of strangers on the internet who claim to have seen the data, or to continue believing whatever they’re already comfortable with. There are numerous people posting who have seen the data. You can choose to believe them when they say that all the major service calibers do practically the same thing or you can choose not to. Too many people are emotionally invested in their preferred caliber.
    Some but I think for most it’s a ballistic woobie, i.e. “If I carry a .45 it will keep me safe.”

    Besides, everyone knows that it is lanyard loops on pistols, not caliber that wards off evil spirits.
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  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    I think this is one of those things where some people just won’t believe unless they see the data. The data isn’t publicly available so their options are to take the words of strangers on the internet who claim to have seen the data, or to continue believing whatever they’re already comfortable with. There are numerous people posting who have seen the data. You can choose to believe them when they say that all the major service calibers do practically the same thing or you can choose not to. Too many people are emotionally invested in their preferred caliber.
    But do we really need to see it? The feds have a multi million dollar budget just to test ammo. They are always looking for the best ammo and have a vested interest since their own personnel will carry whatever they discover as the best. Why would they choose something that isn’t the ideal option? Some days I think it would be easier to teach theoretical physics to a squirrel than get the shooters like these to understand terminal effects with regard to handgun ammo.

    And for the shooters who don’t trust the feds because “conspiracy” or other nonsense... look at our SOF units. They can use whatever they want and they actually shoot lots of people. They are carrying 9mm. These threads are like an overweight middle school gym teacher telling an Olympic gold medalist they aren’t exercising correctly.
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  3. #113
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    And for the shooters who don’t trust the feds because “conspiracy” or other nonsense... look at our SOF units. They can use whatever they want and they actually shoot lots of people. They are carrying 9mm. These threads are like an overweight middle school gym teacher telling an Olympic gold medalist they aren’t exercising correctly.
    The gun counter lore is that SOF guys still carry 1911's in By Gawd .45acp. Glock 19s? What Glock 19s?
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
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  4. #114
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinmove_ View Post
    What HCM said. The MHS Trials never specified caliber and there was speculation at certain points that the chosen pistol could have gone back to .45Auto or even .40S&W. The article that you linked didn’t specify such a thing either. The article that you linked was really just an HK45 ad. It’s a great pistol, but it doesn’t really prove or disprove anything germane to this discussion nor did it answer any of the questions I posed to you.

    You don’t like 9mm? That’s fine. I have no problem with that. But if you’re saying that 9mm is woefully insufficient as a duty grade caliber, you’re objectively incorrect. Plain and simple.
    9mm's fine. I have one and reload 9mm. If I didn't like it I wouldn't spend that much time with it. Stop with the drama queen shit.

    The HK45 came out of the JCP. Specs can be found here.

    https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...ombat-pistols/

    That was back in 2004 when the military thought they could buy 600,000 pistols and get what they actually wanted, 45 ACP. If they didn't want it they would have never wrote the spec.

    Military purchased the cheapest pistol they could. That was a 9mm. Ammo costs matter. Same reason they won't move away from 5.56. Not the best but cheap.
    Last edited by Borderland; 11-21-2019 at 08:38 PM.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.
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  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe in PNG View Post
    The gun counter lore is that SOF guys still carry 1911's in By Gawd .45acp. Glock 19s? What Glock 19s?
    Not just Glock 19s, Glock 19s with red dots.....
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  6. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    The HK45 came out of the JCP. Specs can be found here.

    https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...ombat-pistols/

    That was back in 2004 when the military thought they could buy 600,000 pistols and get what they actually wanted, 45 ACP. If they didn't want it they would have never wrote the spec.

    Military purchased the cheapest pistol they could. That was a 9mm. Ammo costs matter. Same reason they won't move away from 5.56. Not the best but cheap.
    Who is telling you this nonsense?
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.
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  7. #117
    Four String Fumbler Joe in PNG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    Not just Glock 19s, Glock 19s with red dots.....
    I can't hear you! LALALALA 1911 LALALALA FILIPINO INSURRECTION! LALALALA THEY ALL FALL TO HARDBALL! LALALALA!!!
    "You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
    "I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
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  8. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Borderland View Post
    The HK45 came out of the JCP. Specs can be found here.

    https://www.tactical-life.com/firear...ombat-pistols/

    That was back in 2004 when the military thought they could buy 600,000 pistols and get what they actually wanted, 45 ACP. If they didn't want it they would have never wrote the spec.
    .
    So what? The military is so resistant to change its almost a diagnosable disease. You’re talking about “big Army.” Stuck in tradition “because we’ve always done it that way.” They are not the people I’d go to for advice on anything handgun related. They still don’t do preventative maintenance on small arms. They just shoot them until something breaks. Then replace the broken part with a used part off another weapon that might be at the end of it’s service life. The people in DoD who actually use handguns for killing are in the special operations community. And they carry 9mm.

    Your use of the JCP was to justify 45 caliber pistols is like saying the military should not replace their Jet Rangers (OH-58) because traffic reporters use them successfully every morning.
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  9. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Who is telling you this nonsense?
    He read it on the Internet. Or in a gun magazine. Or the guy behind the gun store counter told him. Lol!
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  10. #120
    Abducted by Aliens Borderland's Avatar
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    The people in DoD who actually use handguns for killing are in the special operations community. And they carry 9mm.
    OK, if you say so.
    In the P-F basket of deplorables.
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