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Thread: Doubts about 9mm

  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by GlorifiedMailman View Post
    Didn't the G2 have problems to the point of the FBI dropping it and replacing it with Critical Duty?

    It seems like most of the professionally conducted test results I've seen of it have had problems particularly with expansion.
    I believe it is still on the @DocGKR list?

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  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlorifiedMailman View Post
    Didn't the G2 have problems to the point of the FBI dropping it and replacing it with Critical Duty?

    It seems like most of the professionally conducted test results I've seen of it have had problems particularly with expansion.
    I'm going from memory but I recall it being posted here before that it was a purchase contract issue, not a performance issue. The contract was awarded to multiple vendors and they would buy so much from each. Winchester also got a slice of the pie, IIRC.


    I'm sure if I'm remembering incorrectly someone will come along and smack me back into my proper place soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Maybe with talented students I would lube up with baby oil and then go at it.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by GlorifiedMailman View Post
    Didn't the G2 have problems to the point of the FBI dropping it and replacing it with Critical Duty?

    It seems like most of the professionally conducted test results I've seen of it have had problems particularly with expansion.
    The original batch in 2015 was as recalled. Turns out Speers equipment was not cutting the jackets deeply enough to expand properly. Several of us on PF bought the recalled ammo at very good prices (cheaper than FMJ at the time) for training.

    The issue was fixed and the ammo went back in service where they still use it today. They maxed out the contract and when they tested for a new contract the Critical Duty did marginally better so it received the contract.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with G2 and I purchased a couple cases for myself before the prices doubled this year.

    ETA - just read BBIs post. Hes correct. Winchester is also available for purchase on their new contract.
    Last edited by El Cid; 12-02-2019 at 10:13 PM.

  4. #244
    147 G2 has had expansion problems in clear gel, 4ld ordnance gel, etc. They ended up recalling a bunch of ammo in 2014-2015 and selling it as practice ammo.

    We discussed it recently in this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....arisons-Part-I

    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t View Post
    Speer was tight lipped, but the G2 V2's skive and seating depth differences are more than a single manufacturing error.

    Recalled G2:
    Attachment 44839

    Version 2 G2:
    Attachment 44840

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Third--like some other projectiles we have tested, including early versions of Gold Dot, Ranger Talon, HST, some lots of G2 had manufacturing QC issues which proved to inhibit bullet terminal performance..........want to guess how these problems were discovered??? (Hint: see photo below showing top row of failed G2 fired through 4LD compared to known control loads)

    Attachment 44880
    Quote Originally Posted by the Schwartz View Post
    OK, think that I located the associated data:

    9 mm Speer 147 gr G2 at 955 fps (accuracy 95-0x):
    BG: Pen = 13.8, RD = 0.53, RL = 0.45, RW = 147.5 gr
    4LD: Pen = 20+, RD = 0.35, RL = 0.65, RW = 147.0 gr (all rounds failed to expand)
    AG: Pen = 10.5, RD = 0.65, RL = 0.54, RW = 147.5 gr

    Supposedly it is all better now, but you'll still sometimes come across current headstamp ammo being sold for training only: https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-147-...nly-350-rounds

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlorifiedMailman View Post
    Didn't the G2 have problems to the point of the FBI dropping it and replacing it with Critical Duty?

    It seems like most of the professionally conducted test results I've seen of it have had problems particularly with expansion.
    No. your info is out of date.

    As El Cid stated expansion issues with G2 were "teething " issues with the initial production lots. Speer recalled that ammo and sold it in bulk as practice only. The current G2 is good to go and has been for couple years now..

    In Gov't. contracting you normally cant say "I want X" you have to describe X and/or it's performance and hope you get the X you wanted.

    Say a hypothetical 3 letter agency wanted critical duty 9mm so they put out s solicitation for 147 grain 9mm JHP with "goo" in the hollow point (just like critical duty). Since critical Duty is the only such ammo on the market you think you will get exactly what you want. But another company (Speer) develops a 147 grain 9mm JHP with "Goo" that meets the same standards as Critical Duty and the new load (G2) wins the contract.

    However, you still want CD. so instead of renewing the initial contract you re-compete and wind up a 135 grain hollow point with goo in the JHP in the flavor you wanted.
    Last edited by HCM; 12-02-2019 at 10:33 PM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0ddl0t;962026
    Supposedly it is all better now, but you'll still sometimes come across current headstamp ammo being sold for training only: [url
    https://www.luckygunner.com/9mm-147-gr-jhp-g2-speer-gold-dot-training-only-350-rounds[/url]
    You had me excited but they are out of stock.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    No. your info is out of date.

    As El Cid stated expansion issues with G2 were "teething " issues with the initial production lots. Speer recalled that ammo and sold it in bulk as practice only. The current G2 is good to go and has been for couple years now..

    In Gov't. contracting you normally cant say "I want X" you have to describe X and/or it's performance and hope you get the X you wanted.

    Say a hypothetical 3 letter agency wanted critical duty 9mm so they put out s solicitation for 147 grain 9mm JHP with "goo" in the hollow point (just like critical duty). Since critical Duty is the only such ammo on the market you think you will get exactly what you want. But another company (Speer) develops a 147 grain 9mm JHP with "Goo" that meets the same standards as Critical Duty and the new load (G2) wins the contract.

    However, you still want CD. so instead of renewing the initial contract you re-compete and wind up a 135 grain hollow point with goo in the JHP in the flavor you wanted.
    But buying guns with sights regulated for 147gr pills... and switching to 135gr+P is um... not what I would do. Lol! Most shooters may not notice the difference. But at 25 yards I see a 5 to 6 difference in elevation between 115gr and 147gr.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    You had me excited but they are out of stock.
    Same here. Lol! I have some left and use it to vet new guns. I even snagged some of the 45 G2 training ammo.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    You had me excited but they are out of stock.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    Same here. Lol! I have some left and use it to vet new guns. I even snagged some of the 45 G2 training ammo.
    Yeah, it was in stock about a month ago, but went fast. If you really love the stuff, you might see if fatdog's LGS still has some. This was his post from a couple weeks back:


    Quote Originally Posted by fatdog View Post
    Pulling up this necro thread because a LGS has a mountain of this stuff, the 147gr G2, same reclassified "not for duty use" white box packaging as show above, gold primers, '18 headstamp.

    Not thinking of it as carry ammo, but for 350 rounds at 69.00 per box, I am tempted to go load the bus with this stuff as practice ammo.

    Just wondering if anybody has purchased and shot a quantity of the reclassified G2 and if it was worthy as practice ammo. The price is certainly right.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by El Cid View Post
    But buying guns with sights regulated for 147gr pills... and switching to 135gr+P is um... not what I would do. Lol! Most shooters may not notice the difference. But at 25 yards I see a 5 to 6 difference in elevation between 115gr and 147gr.
    At 25 yards, Syntech 150, American Eagle 115 and Lawman 124 have a different enough POI in my Gen 4 34 pistols, to make for trouble shooting head box size targets. This becomes a lot more obvious with a red dot.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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