Doubts about 9mm

[BehindBlueI's]

Obviously bullet for bullet, the 9mm will be inferior, physics dictates that.

Any common duty caliber bullet that disrupts the right tissues/structures will work equally, biology dictates that. A .45 through the brain doesn't work any better or any worse than a 9mm through the brain or a .357 magnum through the brain, etc. A disrupted spinal cord, a severed artery, etc. All samey-same.

[0ddl0t]

I've also seen DocGKR and others state that, if forced to use FMJ, they would choose larger calibers like .45 Auto.

How long ago ?

Last I recall he said he would have no issue carrying 9mm FMJ if someone were giving him 10-20k a year of it to maintain real proficiency.

The closest I've seen is this statement from May 2015:

.45 ACP makes the most sense in states with idiotic 10 rd magazine restrictions, in departments that give you lots of free .45 Auto ammo, or in situations where modern expanding ammunition is restricted due to asinine, illogical regulations.

[GlorifiedMailman]

The closest I've seen is this statement from May 2015:

Yes, that is the instance that comes immediately to mind, though I'm pretty sure I've seen it elsewhere as well.

[BehindBlueI's]

The closest I've seen is this statement from May 2015:

I recall asking about that and it was largely a function of magazines that worked as opposed to many of the 9mm neutered mags at the time.

I often use a .45 as my out of town gun because I'd rather have a full sized single stack then a compact double stack. Hell, last trip I took a revolver and survived to tell the tale.

[El Cid]

I recall asking about that and it was largely a function of magazines that worked as opposed to many of the 9mm neutered mags at the time.

I often use a .45 as my out of town gun because I'd rather have a full sized single stack then a compact double stack. Hell, last trip I took a revolver and survived to tell the tale.

That’s what I remember as well. In fact Doc has posted pics of his G19 he carries. The grip was chopped to take G26 mags, so even when limited to 10 he had a 9mm on him.

[the Schwartz]

I recall asking about that and it was largely a function of magazines that worked as opposed to many of the 9mm neutered mags at the time.

I often use a .45 as my out of town gun because I'd rather have a full sized single stack then a compact double stack. Hell, last trip I took a revolver and survived to tell the tale.

I have the same preference for a full sized single stack over the abbreviated grip of a compact. Having even one of my fingers partially hanging off the end of the grip is irritating enough that it interferes with how I shoot. I take it you have the same preference for teh same reason as I, or is there something else that I've missed?

[Galbraith]

The simple answer is to first get good quality training, and train often......then train some more with other peoples equipment(borrow/rent/buy). Once you think you have trained well and tried a wide variety of drills, then go find a different teacher and train with them(repeat even into old age). Study, and make it a passion to gain knowledge within the box, and outside the box of everything firearms related. Be open minded, but listen to ALL opinions with a grain of salt that needs further verification. After a while, your experiences begin to lead you in a direction that will best fit within your own strengths and weaknesses regardless of what the mainstream may be following at the moment.

All the major service calibers work if you do your part and your shots hit vital anatomy. It helps more if you use modern, good quality defensive ammunition. Many people favor the 9mm now days because it is generally easier for "most" people to target that vital anatomy, and if a shot fails to hit that anatomy, the 9mm's characteristics make it easier to try to hit it again, and again, and again......usually 15 to 18 chances before the gun stops going bang and it is time to stop pulling the trigger and perform a different task. With larger/stronger calibers that task can be more difficult, particularly if you must shoot single handed. These days I use .45acp on duty, and 9mm off duty. I have my reasons, but most importantly I can shoot my duty .45acp often better in meaningful, timed courses of fire than I can with other chambering in the same platform. It doesn't hurt that I get a decent supply of free .45acp training ammo. The simple physics of 9mm give me a "tad" faster splits in follow-ups, but my accuracy and groups are measurably better all the way beyond 50yrds. Other criteria for me are that I can also shoot the .45 quite well in courses of fire where I must shoot off-hand, or primary hand only. I am of course handicapped by having only 10+1 rounds on tap, but it makes me a very accomplished reloader compared to my 9mm counterparts. These are things that I determined after thousands of rounds of testing a particular platform and caliber, thousands more rounds in other tested calibers. What works for me, may not work for you. You have to dedicate yourself to getting the experience........the instruction, the practice, and the exposure to the topic.

[GlorifiedMailman]

The simple answer is to first get good quality training, and train often......then train some more with other peoples equipment(borrow/rent/buy). Once you think you have trained well and tried a wide variety of drills, then go find a different teacher and train with them(repeat even into old age). Study, and make it a passion to gain knowledge within the box, and outside the box of everything firearms related. Be open minded, but listen to ALL opinions with a grain of salt that needs further verification. After a while, your experiences begin to lead you in a direction that will best fit within your own strengths and weaknesses regardless of what the mainstream may be following at the moment.

All the major service calibers work if you do your part and your shots hit vital anatomy. It helps more if you use modern, good quality defensive ammunition. Many people favor the 9mm now days because it is generally easier for "most" people to target that vital anatomy, and if a shot fails to hit that anatomy, the 9mm's characteristics make it easier to try to hit it again, and again, and again......usually 15 to 18 chances before the gun stops going bang and it is time to stop pulling the trigger and perform a different task. With larger/stronger calibers that task can be more difficult, particularly if you must shoot single handed. These days I use .45acp on duty, and 9mm off duty. I have my reasons, but most importantly I can shoot my duty .45acp often better in meaningful, timed courses of fire than I can with other chambering in the same platform. It doesn't hurt that I get a decent supply of free .45acp training ammo. The simple physics of 9mm give me a "tad" faster splits in follow-ups, but my accuracy and groups are measurably better all the way beyond 50yrds. Other criteria for me are that I can also shoot the .45 quite well in courses of fire where I must shoot off-hand, or primary hand only. I am of course handicapped by having only 10+1 rounds on tap, but it makes me a very accomplished reloader compared to my 9mm counterparts. These are things that I determined after thousands of rounds of testing a particular platform and caliber, thousands more rounds in other tested calibers. What works for me, may not work for you. You have to dedicate yourself to getting the experience........the instruction, the practice, and the exposure to the topic.

Thank you for the advice. I'm signed up for a reputable class this December, and I hope to learn valuable knowledge and skills.

Just out of curiosity, what 10+1 .45 do you carry on duty that you shoot better than your 9mm, and what is your 9mm?

[Navin Johnson]

GlorifiedMailnan and BBMW, would you two care to share your average 25y B8 score or FAST test, because I'm curious if you put equal effort and energy into shooting as you do in caliber debates.

[JRB]

Can we please get a mod or admin to take @HCM's posts and put them in a 'read this before talking about caliber selection' sticky thread? It's some top shelf commentary that really does cover all the bases.