Gun culture and foreign students

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Seems US gun culture deters some foreign students. For academics, this is a problem as:

1. It gives antigun academics another reason to rant about guns
2. Pragmatically, many schools try to get foreign students who will pay full tuition to help their bottom line:

Here's a quote

Among those watching are prospective international students and their parents — and the images may be coloring their perceptions of studying in America. On the road, admissions officers are peppered with questions about campus safety. A survey of about 2,000 current international students and recent graduates of American colleges by World Education Services, a nonprofit international-education research company, found that nearly two in five are worried about gun violence. This spring, the Chinese government even warned students and other travelers about the risks of going to the United States.

https://www.chronicle.com/interactiv...115-GunCulture

The actual article is behind a pay wall.

Some analysis suggests that the gun culture is more of a deterrent to enrollment than the 'Trump' effect. However, students from countries with mandatory miliitary service or some gun culture weren't affected. Some were attracted as in one school half the rifle and pistol club was from overseas students.

Just for your info, folks. No editorial agenda on my part. If they don't want to come here, that's their choice. Tough.

PS - in the Remington thread, I decided continuing to fire back and forth in that one wasn't productive, so I let it go. No need for another debate on presidential qualities. Views are well known.

[0ddl0t]

I have run into a number of foreign exchange students at my local indoor range. It seems to start out as a guilty curiosity - like a first trip to the strip club - but many seem to develop an appreciation after shooting.

Of course, that's a biased sample of those even willing to step foot inside a gun store/range...

[Bergeron]

Well, good.

On one level, the American tradition of rebellion and weapons rights is unique in the world and a particular example of our exceptionalism. A bare-faced farmer shot the King’s troops when he fired “the shot heard ‘round the world” and the defeat of the Empire led to a Constitutional republic that forbade government infringement upon the rights of citizens. We’ve never had kings, queens, emperors, empresses, or dictators, and we never will. Armed, enthusiastic rebellion against government is part of our national history and character, and if someone does not like that, they are invited to stay away from our educational system.

On another level, the American system of higher education, particularly in the STEM fields, has an unhealthy addiction to the high tuition and low expectations of foreign students. Concepts of cheating, honesty, academic integrity, and intellectual property tend to be more poorly understood and practiced by foreign students than by Americans. While undergraduate degrees are enthusiastically sought by Americans, the academy has done a poor job in marketing graduate education to citizens. With a bit of determination American graduate schools graduate many more Americans. China has decided to be a negative influencer in the world, and we don’t need to continue educating their students.

Finally, schools are extremely safe places, anyone pushing a narrative of “gun violence” in America is more interested in propagandizing people than in facing reality.

[YVK]

1. I don't think I can understand the exact prevalence of this attitude on the basis of this article.

2. I don't care to understand the exact prevalence of this attitude. The don't want to come - go elsewhere, see where else they can can both good education and the degrees that carry over internationally. I am a graduate of a foreign higher education system. I had to pass every fucking US exam to prove it all over again, and then do eight years of postgrad here to hold a good job. Those people think they can get into Oxford or afford St Andrews, all power to them. Or they can go to Moscow State, spend four years freezing their asses in winter, and get a degree accepted almost nowhere.

[ranger]

I suspect that many foreign students (no, not all) who can afford to travel to America to attend schooling come from their countries elite - either political or financial - and have led sheltered lives in a very controlled environment with walls and armed guards. They may have no concept of personal freedom.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The students the schools want, come from well to do folks and will pay the high tuition. I've met very nice kids from Singapore,India and Malaysia - they had bucks. Even the kids from the PRC were nice kids and hard working.

[YVK]

And my wife had to teach Saudis who were absolutely terrible, and were only here because their govt/king Abdullah were sending them in and paying for them. They shouldn't have been here at all, they were totally toxic, but the university loved the Saudi cash.
Regardless, where well heeled families of the world want to send their kids to college is not even on a radar of my concern. I do presume that North America is still one of the largest job markets for college educated people so it's their due diligence to make sure their degrees mean anything to us.

[Coal Train]

*Undergraduate international students generally come from wealthier families and often act as “bad” (and in many case worse) as U.S. undergraduate students who come from wealthy families.

*Graduate international students are generally hardworking and dedicated. They come from all walks of their respective societies.

*Most of the international students I have been involved with were either ambivalent or very interested in guns. The gun ranges in the college towns in which I have worked are usually full of international students.

(* at least students in my field)

One thing I can promise you is that the PRC does not care one bit about the safety of the their students that come to the U.S. What they are currently very interested in is convincing those students that they should be going to PRC Universities rather than coming to the U.S. or European Universities.

[45dotACP]

I'm sure the PRC can send their students someplace safer. Hong Kong, for instance.

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[Shoresy]

I'm sure the PRC can send their students someplace safer. Hong Kong, for instance.

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Or to carry their "spontaneous patriotism" onward in other places. Like Australia. Or New Zealand.