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Thread: Vetting a Defensive Pump Shotgun?

  1. #1
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    Vetting a Defensive Pump Shotgun?

    I haven't seen this discussed before. I just got my ex-police 870 Magnum back from Wilson Combat where they did their "Remington Steal" package on it and added sights and a Mesa Tactical sidesaddle. I honestly expect zero drama from it, but still want to be sure. So...

    How many rounds?

    Assuming they're all 2-3/4" low-recoil, does it matter what load it is (bird/buck/slug)?

    It's got a seven-round magazine. Load it to full and then empty it, or reload at different rounds-remaining points?

    I'm planning on shooting it with a full sidesaddle. Any reason not to?

    Anything I missed?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Get a few boxes of slugs, a few boxes of whatever buckshot you'll be using for defense, and a 100cnt box of bird shot or two and go to the range. I would load the mag fully and incorporate some reload drills in your testing to make sure everything feeds properly under different scenarios. If you get through a couple hundred rounds of various types without drama, I'd say you're good to go. Clean it up, load it for serious business, and don't worry about it. Pumps are pretty simple guns and yours has been gone through by an outfit that presumably knows what they're doing, so you're really just function-testing it to ensure there aren't any gremlins and to familiarize yourself with the gun.

    Chris

  3. #3
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    To revchuck38 and anyone else out there with similar questions/issues,

    The questions posed are specific/broad/not-easily answered on an internet-forum.
    Do consider in-person training, hopefully found within driving distance from your location, or at increased cost, driving and staying somewhere overnight.

    The "Remington Steal" packages seem to be a good deal ranging from $230 to $480, plus any shipping charges to Berryville, AR. This is especially good if the owner knows or trusts an older Remington 870 instead of getting a new Remington. Otherwise, you've got a great base-shotgun in a Remington 870 and for most needs/wants, unnecessary to go with the latest $2K semiauto from Italy or semi-custom new, from Nighthawk or Wilson-Combat, not that there's anything wrong with those.

    Another option for training, at least to get one's "feet wet" are video-training CDs. Some excerpts are likely available free, online. You might even shop for used videos which were originally made in VHS tape; you'll need to obtain a VHS vcr if you don't already have one; and then the same thing, but better video/audio quality on compact discs.

    Here might be a good deal I just found on Ebay: https://ebay.to/2NRKZ3y

    In order of your concerns:
    1. Side-saddle. I have these on my shotguns. Do practice shooting and reloading from such as they can initially get in the way of manipulating the pump at first, sometimes painfully while learning.

    2. # of Rounds. I saw from my referenced ITTS link the training classes were advising ~200 rounds, but that's for training specific class/instructor goals/drills. Each person is different and may or may not need further practice in moving, shooting, reloading, and shot-select. What's "shot-select"? That would be switching from something like 00 buck to slugs or vice-versa. I probably shoot a few hundred (maybe 300-500 rounds) per year, but that's tempered by the ~40,000 rounds/year I might shoot, mostly with handgun. I'm trying to cut-back, maybe to ~30,000, but 1,000/week seems to be my norm. (I was bad this week and shot 1700 rounds through my AR-15 in two days. I'm feeling a bit more "dangerous" with it right now).

    3. Bird/Buck/Slug Ammo. The selection of ammo becomes a personal decision regarding low-recoil vs. full power. I only shoot 2.75" ammo and believe there'll be a trade-off in low-recoil vs. full-power ammo. I've used bird-shot for training, particularly shooting/moving/reloading drills. For tactical/gunfighting use, I only load and carry 00-buck and 1 oz. slugs, as that's how I'm trained.

    4. How to Load a 7-Round Mag Tube. One method is to load the mag tube fully; another method is to down-load the mag tube by one specifically for the shot-select. I don't understand what's meant by "reload at different rounds-remaining points". You'll also have more ammo in your side-saddle. If all the ammo is the same, then reload if/when you can. I also covered practicing with a side-saddle in point#1. If you only plan to carry & shoot one type of ammo, I see no problem in having the mag tube full.

    5. Your side-saddle should basically be full and ready-to-go. Keeping/storing a firearm with ammo is a personal decision and depends on one's environment regarding availability/accessibility/safety.

    6. Anything Missed. That was the training aspect which will include how you set-up your shotgun(s) and probably answer everything you've asked.

    EDITED to ADD:
    You've already done some study or have experience as you knew to send a shotgun to Wilson-Combat; you chose an 870; you decided on some type of sights; you chose a good side-saddle brand (btw, I've mostly used the old "TacStar" brand of side-saddle and some others and not the Mesa Tactical brand). Make sure to periodically double-check your side-saddle is tight to the gun and not about to fall off.
    Last edited by L-2; 11-16-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by L-2 View Post
    Here might be a good deal I just found on Ebay: https://ebay.to/2NRKZ3y
    Holy crap, they're getting nearly $80 for that DVD set? I think I paid $15 for it direct from Magpul.

    FWIW, Site Supporter who wants to watch the DVDs can borrow mine for the cost of shipping.

    Also, I read the OP's post as advice for vetting the shotgun, not setting it up and/or using it. Did I misunderstand the intent?

    Chris

  5. #5
    Honestly, I think the best way to vet a shotgun is to either shoot a 3-gun match with it or find a shotgun specific class. A 3-gun competition will have you shooting and manipulating the gun under pressure. A class will give you more hands on time with it. Either will expose any issues with function of your gun and your gear setup that you might not find on a static range.

  6. #6
    Here's one observation:

    When vetting semi-auto pistols, we'll occasionally see them run with cheap ball range ammo, then choke with quality defensive ammo. That's pretty rare these days as modern auto-pistols are all set up to run with JHP, but it's A Thing.

    With shotguns I've seen the opposite. There's some cheap promotional shot-shells out there with a head that isn't brass (steel?) that will give occasional extraction issues with both 870s and 500s that don't happen with quality birdshot or the type of buck and slugs you'd actually use for Go Time. So if you have issues with cheaper birdshot, try switching brands before blaming the gun.

    I'd be pretty happy running a couple hundred rounds through it and calling it good, although I have nothing empirical to base that on.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  7. #7
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    In response to Post_4,
    You're right. I didn't respond directly to vetting the refurbished 870 and didn't really understand all the questions in the OP.
    I probably got thrown off by the final question of "anything missed".

    To only vet the shotgun, I suppose we're talking two things:
    (1) Is the shotgun reliable, and
    (2) Does the user now feel comfortable trusting it.

    Now I understand the main question better (I think).
    Consider doing a drill of loading from 1 to 7 seven rounds and shooting them all.
    For instance load 1, and shoot it.
    Then load 2 and shoot both; and do that until all eight rounds (7+1).
    I think that gets up to shooting 36 rounds total (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8).
    As this is being done, the loading can be done from the side-saddle, reloading the side-saddle as needed.
    This will vet the user with that side-saddle as different brands of side-saddle will feel differently.
    The user will also get a feel for how well the rounds are retained and may depend on how the user loads the specific brand of shells into the side-saddle (up/down/how-deeply set).
    Depending on the gun and ammo, the user will get a feel for how hard to rack the pump and whether the ammo has some sort of ejection/extraction issues.

    For rounds can be better, but in this case, this 36 round drill might be considered.
    Depending on the sights, if the sights are adjustable, this could entail more ammo if the sights are still not adjusted to the user's preference in that 36 rounds.

    At any time, things may loosen up and need retightening, such as side-saddle, stock, pump, sights, mag-tube-cap.

    I think we're vetting the user more than the gun after this. If it was my only shotgun and time and ammo was limited, I'd at least want to know it can fire a round. If I had to, as I had to for ~20 years of cop work, I'd load a particular shotgun and hope/trust it worked and went to work with it. There were a couple of times in that 20 years where I found something wrong with an assigned or issued firearm; not often but it can happen.

    I've not found a good pencil-test equivalent for a shotgun as there is for a pistol.

  8. #8
    Member GearFondler's Avatar
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    Don't forget vetting the chosen Ammo... Regardless of if runs reliably you still need to know how it performs at specific distances.

  9. #9
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    In my experience pumps can be very picky about ammo. So I would vet it with defensive ammo like you would a pistol.

    I would second the suggestion to go run some matches with it. Match prrssure is a great way to discover man machine interface issues.

    If its a defense gun not a duty gun I would load the tube up with your preferred vetted buckshot. Ammo changover is so unlikely to not be a massive priority.
    Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.

  10. #10
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    I've started the process, shown here.

    The ammo I'm going to use for vetting is stuff I've had for a while that I want to get rid of - 75 rounds of Federal birdshot, 30 rounds of Estate low-recoil 00, 40 rounds of Winchester Ranger low-recoil 00, and a few boxes of Federal Truball full-power slugs which I have no idea why I bought. I plan to zero the gun at 50 yards with low-recoil Truball (actually, this will be step 1) and then pattern eight- and nine-pellet Federal Flite Control 00 to see which it prefers. It will end up loaded (full magazine and sidesaddle, empty chamber) with its preferred buckshot. It's going to be an inside-the-house gun so I see no need for slugs, especially with the FC ammo. I'll keep some slugs on hand anyway, because reasons.

    I had already signed up for a shotgun class next month with Steve Moses, so I've got that covered. Shotgun training is harder to find than carbine training, at least around here.

    Thanks for the feedback!

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