HK P30 DA/SA at 25 yards

[TCinVA]

The key to using the LEM trigger with precision is the same key to using any DA trigger with precision: A good, rolling break. Prior to using the P30 I thought I knew what a rolling break was, but it's only after having used one for a while that I've come to really understand what a good rolling break actually is....and when I can manage to not screw up the sighting bit I can shoot with some pretty spectacular accuracy. The LEM trigger may offer some benefit in that it's typically lighter and smoother than the DA trigger pull of a DA/SA configured pistol, which would make it easier to have that good rolling break...but by really focusing on applying consistent pressure and constant motion of the trigger when shooting in DA mode you should be able to get excellent results even with the DA trigger on your current P30.

The key to shooting DA "fast" is to do all the same things...only quicker. I can go reasonably "fast" and make hits if I just take that extra bit of "time" (in reality only fractions of a second) to press all the way through the break consistently rather than just hammering the trigger to the rear in one violent motion.

[GJM]

TC speaks the truth on the rolling break. I have not shot more than a few rounds thru a P30 in the last six months, but I have shot a lot of .22 thru a Smith 317. For giggles, in light of this thread, I strapped on a LEM P30 and Shaggy, and fired four pairs from concealment at 25 yards this afternoon. No staging the trigger, just pulling through with a rolling break as TC describes. HK ought to package a .22 revolver with each P30.

[Robert Mitchum]

Are these bench rest or offhand??

offhand
I have never done any bench rest shooting.
My problem is not accuarcy when I do slow fire.

[Robert Mitchum]

"The key to shooting DA "fast" is to do all the same things...only quicker. I can go reasonably "fast" and make hits if I just take that extra bit of "time" (in reality only fractions of a second) to press all the way through the break consistently rather than just hammering the trigger to the rear in one violent motion".[/QUOTE]

Thanks !!

[cutter]

The key to using the LEM trigger with precision is the same key to using any DA trigger with precision: A good, rolling break. Prior to using the P30 I thought I knew what a rolling break was, but it's only after having used one for a while that I've come to really understand what a good rolling break actually is....and when I can manage to not screw up the sighting bit I can shoot with some pretty spectacular accuracy. The LEM trigger may offer some benefit in that it's typically lighter and smoother than the DA trigger pull of a DA/SA configured pistol, which would make it easier to have that good rolling break...but by really focusing on applying consistent pressure and constant motion of the trigger when shooting in DA mode you should be able to get excellent results even with the DA trigger on your current P30.

The key to shooting DA "fast" is to do all the same things...only quicker. I can go reasonably "fast" and make hits if I just take that extra bit of "time" (in reality only fractions of a second) to press all the way through the break consistently rather than just hammering the trigger to the rear in one violent motion.

Ah! This seems to explain why I am not consistent when shooting my P30 V2. I'm coming from shooting a 1911 with a glass rod break and what I seem to be doing with the P30 is staging the trigger and mashing the last little bit. So what I should be doing is a smooth continuous pull? What drills outside of a dime/washer should I be doing to learn this?

[JHC]

"The key to shooting DA "fast" is to do all the same things...only quicker. I can go reasonably "fast" and make hits if I just take that extra bit of "time" (in reality only fractions of a second) to press all the way through the break consistently rather than just hammering the trigger to the rear in one violent motion".

Thanks !![/QUOTE]

You are coming from a long history of SA shooting with 1911s and HKs. And you're in the process of transitioning to faster shooting on closer range drills vs dominant training time at longish range precision. I am not sure throwing the additional variable to changing to a "rolling" LEM trigger would be my plan A yet.

[Robert Mitchum]

Thanks !!

You are coming from a long history of SA shooting with 1911s and HKs. And you're in the process of transitioning to faster shooting on closer range drills vs dominant training time at longish range precision. I am not sure throwing the additional variable to changing to a "rolling" LEM trigger would be my plan A yet.[/QUOTE]

I am going to stick with the DA/SA
I forgot to post about the poor lighting at the indoor range I belong too.
Plus I just cut my finger and was trying a new shooting stance out.
I bet the next time I do better

[TCinVA]

Ah! This seems to explain why I am not consistent when shooting my P30 V2. I'm coming from shooting a 1911 with a glass rod break and what I seem to be doing with the P30 is staging the trigger and mashing the last little bit.

That'll nail you every time.

So what I should be doing is a smooth continuous pull?

Correct. As a mental exercise, think about a car...what happens when you mash the gas pedal? It causes a sudden weight transfer and that weight transfer changes the handling f the vehicle...with catastrophic consequences at times.

Say you're in a rear-wheel drive car with 550 horsepower. You're coming out of a tight turn. If you stomp the gas to the floor, you'll end up chasing the back end of the car with the steering wheel to keep from spinning. If, instead, you apply the throttle in a smooth and consistent fashion the rear tires will bite instead of spin and all those ponies will get applied to propelling you in the direction you want to go.

A "rolling break" is the same general concept...smooth, consistent application of pressure throughout the trigger pull directs the bullets where you want them.

What drills outside of a dime/washer should I be doing to learn this?

The dime/empty case drill is a good drill to develop a kinesthetic understanding of what a great trigger pull actually feels like. Another thing that helps is working with a DA revolver. A good .22LR DA revolver can do wonders for your understanding of how to run a double action trigger. Without one of those handy, one of the things I did was go to the range and perform the case on the front sight drill several times and then fire 3 or 4 rounds without paying much attention to the sights, but instead trying to replicate that feel on the trigger. I would repeat that (using a snap cap for the dry runs) for about a box of ammo. After a few range outings doing that I was dry-firing at home after cleaning my guns (I do occasionally clean them...honest) and I distinctly remember having a eureka moment when I went "Oh...THAT's a rolling break!"

Once you understand how it works, you'll have the foundation you need to work on speed.

[TCinVA]

Staging the trigger will nail you every time.

So what I should be doing is a smooth continuous pull?

Correct. As a mental exercise, think about a car...what happens when you mash the gas pedal? It causes a sudden weight transfer and that weight transfer changes the handling f the vehicle...with catastrophic consequences at times.

Say you're in a rear-wheel drive car with 550 horsepower. You're coming out of a tight turn. If you stomp the gas to the floor, you'll end up chasing the back end of the car with the steering wheel to keep from spinning. If, instead, you apply the throttle in a smooth and consistent fashion the rear tires will bite instead of spin and all those ponies will get applied to propelling you in the direction you want to go.

A "rolling break" is the same general concept...smooth, consistent application of pressure throughout the trigger pull directs the bullets where you want them.

What drills outside of a dime/washer should I be doing to learn this?

The dime/empty case drill is a good drill to develop a kinesthetic understanding of what a great trigger pull actually feels like. Another thing that helps is working with a DA revolver. A good .22LR DA revolver can do wonders for your understanding of how to run a double action trigger. Without one of those handy, one of the things I did was go to the range and perform the case on the front sight drill several times and then fire 3 or 4 rounds without paying much attention to the sights, but instead trying to replicate that feel on the trigger. Not shooting for groups or with any accuracy goal beyond simply keeping it on the berm/backstop, but instead concentrating 99% of my attention on replicating that smooth, consistent feel on the trigger. I would repeat that (using a snap cap for the dry runs) for about a box of ammo. After a few range outings doing that I was dry-firing at home after cleaning my guns (I do occasionally clean them...honest) and I distinctly remember having a eureka moment when I went "Oh...THAT's a rolling break!"

Once you understand how it works, you'll have the foundation you need to work on speed. To be honest, that's something I need to do myself. When I go "fast" I tend to smash through the trigger in one violent motion. What I need to do to correct that is ignoring the sights and working on making the gun go boom faster but while feeling myself roll through the trigger instead of smashing it.

[cutter]

Staging the trigger will nail you every time.

Thanks for the tips. I was at the range yesterday and got the chance to shoot a P30 40cal light LEM (mine's a 9mm TGS). Put all of the rounds on the card at 6 yards, so it seems my problem is trigger control. I want to keep working on the TGS springs as Todd writes that he likes it for a faster reset and I don't like the idea of a 4 1/2 lbs trigger on a carry gun without a safety.

The DA 22 is gonna have to wait until the large hole in my bank account from the purchase of a P30, mags, holster, sights..., gets filled.