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Thread: Range Practice Question.

  1. #41
    There's always going to be exceptions, I^2. In my experience, the average normie shooter would not know a good trigger pull if it bit them on the ass. One of the old-school training exercises was to have a student aim a gun at a target, and have an instructor or even another student stand to the side and press the trigger (thus teaching the shooter to accept wobble). The next step was to have the student do the same, but with their finger placed on the trigger. An instructor would then put their finger over the student's, and press the trigger properly, so the student could feel the pressure and see the results. I don't know how I feel about it from a safety standpoint, because I've only seen it in older books and pictures, and never in person.

    The other part of the equation is how you do dry fire practice. Lots of people, no matter what you tell them, just point the gun at stuff and squeeze. You apparently did it properly--with a specific goal in mind: "I'm going to watch the sight before, during and after the shot". I think the other part of it is that you were completely new, whereas most of the time, people do a bunch of shooting and learn a ton of bad habits.

    I work at it from the other side. I start with my eyes closed, and repeat good trigger pulls by feel. Once I've done enough reps to feel confident, I open my eyes and use a target (B-2 @ 50'), the trick being to learn the trigger pull by feel, and then execute it without disturbing the sights. It's funny--I find it does not help my actual bullseye shooting one iota, but I got pretty good at DA revolver in a hurry like that. Literally, from dumpster fire to matching my SA groups.

    Are there going to be dudes that can learn from dry-firing without a lot of prior live-fire? Sure, and it's definitely more successful with more dedicated and fastidious newbros. But on balance, and without supervision, it's more likely to reinforce bad habits.

  2. #42
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    A whole bunch of people here have told me these are not good because they get you focusing on the wrong things

    I find that interesting. With all the talk of red dots and target focused shooting, I question the validity of that.

    The issue with self diagnosis, is the shooter must be capable of not only doing it, understanding the diagnosis, and working out corrective action by themself.

    When a shooter can instantly see where the muzzle is pointed and moving, have a light bulb moment when the dot bounces all over the target. They visually see and physically feel what they did, try, fail, adjust.

    Just one way, not the way, as diagnosing over the internet can be challenging.
    Taking a break from social media.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by CCT125US View Post
    I find that interesting. With all the talk of red dots and target focused shooting, I question the validity of that.

    The issue with self diagnosis, is the shooter must be capable of not only doing it, understanding the diagnosis, and working out corrective action by themself.

    When a shooter can instantly see where the muzzle is pointed and moving, have a light bulb moment when the dot bounces all over the target. They visually see and physically feel what they did, try, fail, adjust.

    Just one way, not the way, as diagnosing over the internet can be challenging.
    The way it was explained to me was it takes your focus off the front sight and puts it on where the little red dot is hitting the target

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    The way it was explained to me was it takes your focus off the front sight and puts it on where the little red dot is hitting the target


    8 time USPSA Production national champion with consecutive wins in 2017, 2018, and 2019

    Shoots with focus on the target not on the front sight

    Guess there's more than one way to be successful

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post


    8 time USPSA Production national champion with consecutive wins in 2017, 2018, and 2019

    Shoots with focus on the target not on the front sight

    Guess there's more than one way to be successful
    Ok

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Since my last post in this thread I've removed the medium back strap from my 19 and I've been practicing dry fire.

    The distances at my range are marked but I'm not sure where they start the measurement. I was shooting from approximately 8 yards. I drew from concealment and fired two shots each time.

    This is the beginning starting cold. The first 5 shots



    This was halfway through. Still 8 yards with Blazer Brass 124 grain.



    This is when I changed targets .


    And this is the end




    One thing I've noticed is that whatever I'm doing wrong I am apparently doing it very consistently because I appear to be hitting the same point over and over and over and over again it just seems to be to the left.

    ETA: The target is 18 inches tall by 12 inches wide.

    The Gray is 4 inches wide

    The orange is 2 inches wide by just a little over 3 tall
    Bro, pay for some training.

    If that's your current capability at 8 yards there are some serious fundamental faults going on and nothing short of a knowledgeable eye right over you will do when it comes to correcting whatever has you stuck there.

    It doesn't need to be some mega-uber-special forces-tier 1 trainer. Just someone local who is a skilled shooter and who is good with diagnosing basic technique errors and can communicate his or her observations well. That's what you need now.

    You'll be money ahead compared to burning ammo trying to figure it out on your own.

    I know you think I'm an asshole but I'm dead serious trying to help you.

    There's bound to be some P-F local knowledge about decent trainers along the Front Range.
    Last edited by Alpha Sierra; 01-23-2020 at 07:35 PM.

  7. #47
    As Edison suggested, I would allocate some of my ammo and my practice time to just shooting groups at the distance that you are currently shooting.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L View Post
    As Edison suggested, I would allocate some of my ammo and my practice time to just shooting groups at the distance that you are currently shooting.
    So basically just target practice?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    So basically just target practice?
    That would be a waste of your time and money.

    In order for practice to be effective, the correct skills and mechanics need to be practiced.

    A simple internet search turned up a significant number of training opportunities in your area.

    Here's one out of the blue (no idea if they're good or suck), but if the trainer is even halfway competent, a hundo for 2 and a half hours of coaching is not a bad deal and will save you money and aggravation in the long run: https://magnumtrainingclasses.com/cl...diate-classes/

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha Sierra View Post
    That would be a waste of your time and money.
    I know we don't get along but this is not meant to be insulting so please don't take it personally.

    If Ed tells me one thing and you contradict him I'm going to go with what Ed said.

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