40S&W making a comeback

[Joe in PNG]

If we've accepted that there mostly negligible and specific differences between major calibers, and that many/most shooters in 9mm guns perform demonstrably better than in larger calibers, why would .40/.45 make a comeback with new legislation? In a compact to full size gun, 10 rounds is still only ten rounds. In a subcompact or a 6-8rd 9mm, it's now 5-7. For most folks, that's the same or fewer rounds to shoot worse with.

I don't get it?

Do remember that derp never really goes out of style.

[Galbraith]

If we've accepted that there mostly negligible and specific differences between major calibers, and that many/most shooters in 9mm guns perform demonstrably better than in other calibers, why would .40/.45 make a comeback with new legislation? In a compact to full size gun, 10 rounds is still only ten rounds. In a subcompact or a 6-8rd 9mm, it's now 5-7. For most folks, that's the same or fewer rounds to shoot worse with.

I don't get it?

I would agree, I am doubtful that the 9mm would loose popularity with a ban as it still is a much easier cartridge to shoot for most people. For a long time I carried a single stack Sig P239 9mm because it was the best viable option for off duty carry, and that was up until 3 years ago.

[Borderland]

I see you’ve changed threads and are spouting your uninformed nonsense here now. You’re very, very out of touch. Just because you have a keyboard doesn’t mean you should use it.

As for 40 coming back. I can’t imagine it will ever thrive again for all the reasons that have already been stated. If there is a surge in people buying 40 caliber guns it’s only because some shooters can’t resist a deal and are buying all the trade in guns from people who know better and dumped them.

When did it leave?

With a quick check I found 13 companies manufacturing ammo for 40 S&W.

Somebody needs to tell all of those ammo manufacturers that it's gone. Or maybe it's warehouses full of ammo they can't sell.

Your logic escapes me. When the military went to 9mm the 45 ACP didn't go away. Lots of people still shoot it. I do because I don't know any better I guess.

So now that every LE agency in the country surplused their 40's it's also dead. Got It.

[TCB]

We’re not surplussing ours, we’re burning it up...prior to the switch. The 1,000’s of rounds sitting in my garage will probably just keep sitting there though. Can’t really see any point in shooting it when 9mm is a much more practical round for training, carry, duty, etc... I’m only allowing myself one out of date round, 45ACP!

[HopetonBrown]

When did it leave?

With a quick check I found 13 companies manufacturing ammo for 40 S&W.
.

With a quick check I found 13 companies manufacturing ammo for 45 GAP.

[Jeff22]

The majority of agencies where I am DO NOT issue handguns. You buy your own off the approved list. Around here Glocks are overwhelmingly the most common. A few agencies carry Smith & Wesson M&Ps and one agency had a few academy classes using MK VP9s and the current class that just graduated was trained on Sig P320s.

In retirement I work for one agency that issues the G22 Gen IV with a WML and at the other I carry a personally owned Glock 35.

The one agency used to issue the Sig P226-DAK in .40 and I have one of those, and also a Smith & Wesson M&P in .40.

I have 9mm conversion barrels for all of my .40s -- Lone Wolf for the Glocks, a Bar-Sto (spendy) for the Sig and a Storm Lake for the S&W M&P. I have shot all of those guns a little bit with the 9mm conversion barrels using both .40 and 9mm magazines and they functioned fine and were surprisingly accurate. In all of those cases, all I had to do was drop in the 9mm barrel and put the gun back together again.

I don't think I would use a .40 with a 9mm conversion barrel for defensive purposes, but it does present another way to take advantage of sales on 9mm ammo.

Other than cops and some USPSA limited class shooters, I never observed too many people using .40.

[farscott]

If we've accepted that there mostly negligible and specific differences between major calibers, and that many/most shooters in 9mm guns perform demonstrably better than in larger calibers, why would .40/.45 make a comeback with new legislation? In a compact to full size gun, 10 rounds is still only ten rounds. In a subcompact or a 6-8rd 9mm, it's now 5-7. For most folks, that's the same or fewer rounds to shoot worse with.

I don't get it?

If we start seeing capacity limitations across the board I’ll probably go the way of commander sized 1911s to supplement the carrying of my J-frame and pick up an LCR along the way. Yes it’ll be a little heavier than an equivalent polymer gun, but I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around neutered double stack magazines that are partially or half full.

Either way, still probably wouldn’t go .40S&W, personally.

I think the lower quote is an example of why we would see a move away from 9x19 if there is magazine capacity legislation, especially in Glock pistols which are known to have reliability issues with ten-round G19 and G17 magazines. I would also expect a resurgence of the 1911 which is most reliable with rounds longer than 9x19. And the 1911 is easy to shoot at speed, is easy to conceal, and has a hammer for AIWB.

Some of it may be "feels" as opposed to reasoned argument, but a lot of shooters are predisposed to like calibers that start with ".4". I also laugh when I hear the one about why the guy carries a .45; namely, "because they do not make a .46". Yet "they" do make a .50 that (almost) no one carries because the guns are too big. The compromise between round size and size of the guns is why I see .40 S&W coming back if there is a magazine capacity ban. Americans tend to trust large diameter bullets.

[Hambo]

my FTO recruit and later partner married one of my sisters.

I'm not sure WTF this has to do with anything, but all I can think of is Gunny in Full Metal Jacket.

[Bucky]

If we've accepted that there mostly negligible and specific differences between major calibers, and that many/most shooters in 9mm guns perform demonstrably better than in larger calibers, why would .40/.45 make a comeback with new legislation? In a compact to full size gun, 10 rounds is still only ten rounds. In a subcompact or a 6-8rd 9mm, it's now 5-7. For most folks, that's the same or fewer rounds to shoot worse with.

I don't get it?

Those of us that understand physics realize that a .40, with a little more muzzle energy and a lot more momentum, does indeed hit harder than a 9mm. By harder, I mean it’s ability to continue on its intended trajectory in an inconsistent medium.

Some of these same people also understand that when compared against the top performing 9mm rounds in incidents, that any power advantage is typically not as significant (if at all) as the measured differences. Any / if any difference is typically outshined by (in what I consider order of importance)
1. Capacity
2. Shootability
3. Long term cost factors (ammo, wear and tear, etc.)

So, when you take away the #1 advantage of a thing, a thinking person may tend to reconsider their options, even if they ultimately stick with their original choice.

[revchuck38]

Those of us that understand physics realize that a .40, with a little more muzzle energy and a lot more momentum, does indeed hit harder than a 9mm. By harder, I mean it’s ability to continue on its intended trajectory in an inconsistent medium.

Some of these same people also understand that when compared against the top performing 9mm rounds in incidents, that any power advantage is typically not as significant (if at all) as the measured differences. Any / if any difference is typically outshined by (in what I consider order of importance)
1. Capacity
2. Shootability
3. Long term cost factors (ammo, wear and tear, etc.)

So, when you take away the #1 advantage of a thing, a thinking person may tend to reconsider their options, even if they ultimately stick with their original choice.

I'd flip-flop @Bucky's first two priorities. Given that the three main defensive calibers do about equally well when using modern ammo placed where it needs to go, IMO shootability is paramount. Being able to practice more for less money is more important than having that extra 2-3 rounds on board. Having a magazine capacity limit is abhorrent in and of itself, but as a guy who's no longer required to run to the sound of the guns, carrying more than about ten rounds in the gun is gravy. My usual carry gun is a full-size PX4 in 9x19 with a full magazine and one in the chamber, but that's because it's easier to shoot than a smaller gun.