It's trolling to ask for real world examples that support your position?Originally Posted by Magsz
It's trolling to ask for real world examples that support your position?
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The problem with multi-output lights are numerous...too little light, too much light, complex switching, IE most of them.
One of the best multi-output I've owned was an HDS Rotary but it gave up a bit on the tactical side (not much).
The gas pedal Surefires are an okay option, but again, it may be too little or too much on the low end.
I recently got a Valhalla Tactical body for my OKW head and it kicked the Surefire EDC1T out of my pocket. Is it an ideal EDC light, definitely not. However, the performance on the high end kicks the Surefire's butt every which way. For non-tactical emergency use, I can overcome the lack of runtime (35 mins) with spare charged batteries.
I can understand why a nightshift cop would want lower output utility lights for mundane tasks that don't need 1000 lumens. There are lots of options out there, and having many options is a good thing.
As a mostly daytime detective-type, I'll be keeping my OKW in my pocket.
The intent behind this thread was not to make this a versus topic. I was asking for people to post about their experiences so that perhaps I could have my own knowledge base expanded as I don't get the interest in a single output beyond the new cool hotness and the #lumenwars . I can see how this topic sort of drifted into a versus thread as people are brand loyal, others are invested and others are just shills. Its the way of the internet, no biggie.
To answer your question, since it seems like it was fairly asked:
EDC:
Picking up dog shit
My wife and I keep different schedules so when I get home and its dark and she is asleep, I don't like to blast the room with light as I navigate around.
Finding the front key hole on the door of my house when my wife forgets to leave the outside lights on.
I drop shit in the dark at my feet and need to pick it up.
Movie theatres when im feeling all ninja like.
Work:
Reading VIN #'s on crash scenes
Looking at address's on mail boxes, houses etc without telegraphing my position by activating the sun.
Illuminating paperwork while victims/witnesses etc fill it out.
Illuminating blood/bodily fluids etc. 1500 lumens washes these things out.
Looking for shit in my car when it eats objects...its a black hole.
Identifying pretty much whatever it is I want to see in the dark without washing out what im trying to look at closely.
Building searches when a low setting is sufficient in providing me whatever data I may need to collect in the room. A high setting is not always necessary or wanted when say you're looking for a missing person and there is no immediate threat. I would never use my weapon mounted light in this setting which goes back to my earlier post about the clear difference between the two.
I can go on if you feel like you need more examples.
I support the hi/low function light.
Work has this light in my hand for a required - Yet non-Tactial - task daily.
350 lumens high/ 70 lumens low 2 taps later.
I don’t use my phone as an Illumination tool because I’m not a 16 year old girl.
All the lumens. Tactics. I get it.
I could surely wipe my ass with steel wool or pick my nose with pliers - but there’s a better way.
There is a difference between a tactical light and a task light. Task lights.....whatever cool nifty features you want, go for it. I too am in the camp of "all the light right now" for a handheld light to be used as a defensive tool with a handgun. I usually carried three lights with me on duty....when I was an actual street cop, and not a training division pogue. Usually had a programmable task light with me for those "administrative" jobs....and even then it was preset to "Nova". If I needed a little light....I had time. If I needed a lot....usually not. But I only did 27 years of big city night watch cop work, so....I probably don't have enough experience to speak on this. I'm definitely at the "Whatever lights your fire" stage right now.
I liked it, gonna quote it, and it really should be the last word on this. I could add my two cents, but it would only be reduntent in agreeing with AMC’s post.
Except the original intent behind this post was to foster a discussion, not create an us versus them line in the sand.
A light with utility, ie a high/low setting does NOT make it a task light.
Just like a light with a high/low setting does NOT exclude it from being a defensive/offensive tool.
Is it just me or do a lot of the posts in this thread seem overly interested in shutting down a conversation that was started in a gear/EQ subsection?
I too am all about the idea of "to each their own." I was trying to find out what makes that type of gear or doctrine "their own".
Last edited by Magsz; 11-12-2019 at 12:54 AM.
My concern with multi-setting lights is the risk of the light being on low or strobe when you need all the lumens right now. I have noticed an unfortunate feature of my Streamlight Stinger and my Surefire Lawman is that one can easily get a strobe during a building search or other tactical scenario.
Magsz provided some excellent examples of the value of reduced lumens in some situations. I could argue that technique with one's gazillion lumen one-setting torch works in some of those situations (albeit not the waking significant other examples), lower lumens are an advantage in some situations.
I think switch systems such as the Surefire Lawman (no longer available) or Powertac work best. The switch to change lumen settings is separate from the activation switch. It may take longer to change settings, but it reduces the risk of accidentally toggling from one setting to another.
I thought I was agreeing with someone who was making good points in the discussion, but since you think I'm drawing a line in the sand....
No... But if it's an alternating high-low with multi press of a switch it does make it a shit tactical light.
No... But if it's an alternating high-low with multi press of a switch it makes it a shit tactical tool.
Maybe it's you... or maybe it's that your conversation lacks context. So I'll give you mine. I have almost a couple decades in law enforcement and train on an almost constant basis in low light tactics and techniques - My unit, which until the past couple months was less than twenty people is responsible for training over 11,000 armed personnel and now, at twenty four people, is currently at something like 13,000 training spots for the year, has had the opportunity to see a lot of people do things in low light conditions. I've seen how they do things with lights ranging from the top-of-the-line tactical lights to the cheapest Home Depot and 7-11 next-to-the-cashier flashlight display lights. I developed my department's low-light training program, adapted it to one of the most forward-thinking WML training programs in law enforcement today, and I've been passionate about low light training for over twenty years- well before I even entered law enforcement.
With the exception of many older Surefire lights, the old Streamlight Strion (original model), the Surefire Stiletto or head-twist lights like the Quark Tactical, and some other Boutique lights (which often have their own issues regarding constant-on and switching concerns), or the Surefire Tactician or EDC (and similar) series, multi-mode lights sacrifice tactical effectiveness for the ability to do stuff that isn't tactical. I hate that word (tactical) because it sounds and really is "cool guy stuff"... So let's re-define as fighting. If I need to fight as a good guy (cop, homeowner, CCW, etc.) I need to ID threats. If there is enough light then I don't need a flashlight to ID threats. If there is not enough light, then I want all the light I can get. If, under stress, I shake (because that happens under stress... to the best of us) and double tap the light into low mode... I am less effective than I was a moment ago. A tool that can fail that easily isn't what I want under stress... and it's not what you should want. I've seen it literally (that's not a colloquialism) thousands of times... the light switches to low or strobe or whatever other mode or someone hits the stupid focus bezel and the light changes and it causes delay and hesitation. All that work for a fast draw, short splits, and a bitchin' presentation or target transition and now it's all slowed because our equipment isn't meant for the fight but for reading a VIN number, or finding our keys in the dark, or being able to avoid stubbing our toe on the way to the bathroom at 2am.
If you want to be good at fighting get a single-mode light that turns on when you press the tailcap switch and turns off when you release it. Anything else is a compromise and I'll keep my compromise stuff on my ankle in my trauma kit or in my bag in the car. The go-to fighting light better turn on super-frigin-bright when I want it to and turn off when I let go.
Right now I carry a Surefire Tactician as an on-duty tactical light and a Surefire Stiletto as my primary off-duty light. Both of them fill that mission. Both of them can be tasked with a lower mode, but it requires conscious effort to get to that mode and it doesn't interfere with their ability to fulfill the mission of a fighting light.
I try to avoid absolutes, which is funny in respect to my previous statements, and I will say that everyone needs to evaluate their needs. Someone may be totally OK with a light that is geared more towards other applications than to fighting. We all need to evaluate our priorities and our own needs based on our lifestyle and personal threat assessment. At the same time, when the OP is at a loss as to why one may need a single mode light, calls out a post that simply agrees with another well experienced and thought out post, and is clearly wrong in their understanding of low light fighting...
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There's my line.
Last edited by SoCalDep; 11-12-2019 at 02:47 AM.
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