Single Output EDC/Defensive/Utility Lights? I Dont Get It.

[RJ]

The Thrunite ti4 is a good looking option with Firefly(0.3 lumens, 137hours), Low (24 lumens, 12hours), High (252 lumens, 51minutes), Strobe (252 lumens, 90 minutes)

Much obliged. I ordered one of these.

Appreciate it!

[Clusterfrack]

The lights we've been discussing fall in three categories:

1. Single-mode: on high all the time

2. Multi-mode (High default): high output on first press, no matter what. E.g. Klarus XT2C.

3. Multi-mode (user selected default): output on first press depends on user setting. E.g. Fenix, Nitecore, Thrunite, etc.)

Since I use my EDC lights as life-safety equipment, I strongly prefer types 1 and 2. Some lights have a mechanical setting (like the bezel) to select high or low, which is a nice compromise.

Many multi-mode 'tactical' lights have special settings to activate high or strobe, like a long press of the side switch. I don't like these for the same reason I don't carry guns with manual safeties.

[Erick Gelhaus]

GJM told me not to post beyond the 5th page. I'll violate that advise but only a bit.

In terms of switchology and light employment - if in potential harm's way - I want the brightest light possible coming from a simple press-on activation. That's it. No strobe, not stepping up or don with additional presses. Just on now & bright or off now. And the low light stuff I have works along that line.

I strongly agree with the positions presented by AMC, SoCalDep, and VoodooMan.

[TGS]

In terms of switchology and light employment - if in potential harm's way - I want the brightest light possible coming from a simple press-on activation. That's it. No strobe, not stepping up or don with additional presses.

Just the same as I addressed this previously:

There are options on the market that will come on maximum power when you hit the button. You don't have to cycle to get the "oh shit" setting.

Your statement is akin to someone saying, "I wont own a semi-automatic pistol because I don't want to have to swipe off a safety", which is a flawed approach since there are semi-autos without manual safeties.

[Magsz]

Just the same as I addressed this previously:

Im not saying everyone, but a lot of people don't appear to be listening to each other.

There are plenty of lights available with non confusing interfaces that allow the end user to mode select accordingly without fear of accidentally using the wrong mode in the wrong situation. Some may read this as my own personal bias but most of the people posting uses for multi mode lights are posting actual use case to strengthen their positions.

This discussion is starting to read similar to discussions regarding fine motor skills versus gross motor skills. I'm almost to the point where i regret starting this discussion as the original intent was to try and broaden my horizons by gathering other peoples experiences to better understand why a 350 dollar single output handheld light is a thing, rather than a fad. I'm always looking for new ways to do things at work and in my every day life that may make things more efficient.

Instead, the discussion, save a few posters, has devolved into "multi mode lights will get you "kilt in da streetz".

I had no idea people were this passionate about light selection and employment doctrine.

[SoCalDep]

Im not saying everyone, but a lot of people don't appear to be listening to each other.

There are plenty of lights available with non confusing interfaces that allow the end user to mode select accordingly without fear of accidentally using the wrong mode in the wrong situation. Some may read this as my own personal bias but most of the people posting uses for multi mode lights are posting actual use case to strengthen their positions.

This discussion is starting to read similar to discussions regarding fine motor skills versus gross motor skills. I'm almost to the point where i regret starting this discussion as the original intent was to try and broaden my horizons by gathering other peoples experiences to better understand why a 350 dollar single output handheld light is a thing, rather than a fad. I'm always looking for new ways to do things at work and in my every day life that may make things more efficient.

Instead, the discussion, save a few posters, has devolved into "multi mode lights will get you "kilt in da streetz".

I had no idea people were this passionate about light selection and employment doctrine.

I am passionate, but I agree that many of us are talking past each other. I own lotsa guns... for lotsa reasons. I own lotsa lights... for lotsa reasons.

I think that trying to make a light that isn’t best for fighting into something that is OK for fighting is accepting drawbacks. That may be ok based on lifestyle, threat assessment, etc, but should not be confused as being “just as good as”. At the same time, I have a bunch of multi-mode lights, and carry them with a good fighting UI. Even without a fighting UI, multi-mode lights are far more edc practical than a fighting light... until you have to fight.

Therefore I think a lot of this is needs, but I also think there are some things we all have to truthfully reflect upon. I teach these three main failures of instruction in low light:

Conditioning and reinforcement - “I’ve done thousands of T-Stops and hundreds of entries”, or “I’ve carried a light for fifteen years and this one always worked for me”.... as Mike Pannone said, participation doesn’t equal proficiency. How many times during those stops, entries, or your daily life did someone try to kill you?

Failure to address realistic student needs - Why are we carrying a light? Are we trying to find our keys or are we integrating a hand held light with a handgun to solve a life and death problem in the dark? They are NOT the same and the proper tools, training, practice, and techniques differ.

Institutional Inertia and Tactical dogmaticism - “This is how we’ve always done it” or “We learned this from (cool-guy club) and they are rad so it must be good for us and every other less and less motivated, educated, and skilled person out there.”

If you want to find your keys and maybe fight but not really enough to have the best fighting light, get one of the many task-based multi-mode lights.

If you want to be prepared to fight, but know that you’re way more likely to need to find your keys then get one of the multi-mode lights with a “tactical” UI. Some are better than others and some suck.

If you’re concerned primarily about fighting and willing to work to make that light work for task stuff, or you are willing to carry a separate light for task stuff... Get a light that is best for fighting.

There are few to none in the way of lights that are best at everything... that’s why there are lotsa lights and why we own lotsa lights.

The primary question by the OP is why would one want a single mode light. My answer is that I carry a gun all the time on and off duty... including at home. If I expect to use the light in conjunction with a handgun I want a light that will activate on high only with a tail-cap press, and turn off when I let go. I don’t want anything else. Any other option is to support other needs at the expense of fighting with a pistol. Not a bad thing, but we all need to accept the reality of our choices.

[rob_s]

Im not saying everyone, but a lot of people don't appear to be listening to each other.

I wish I could say “it’s the internet, what did you expect would happen” but it’s not really just the internet anymore.

People are pretty stuck on what they think, and increasingly enotionally attached to their purchases and what said purchases say about their intelligence, experience, manhood, etc. usually the least confident are the loudest.

So if you keep that in mind when reading through the the thread, or in having real life conversation, you should be able to put a relative score to the various opinions, keeping in mind that the ones you see with the most vitriol are probably the least valuable.

Or, you can try to take your own emotion out of the equation, read past the posts for those that seem to have missed their nap (maybe they work nights too? ) and look for the u deploying message.

It seems that the base camps here are:

• Some folks see a value in having two modes in one light because they only want to carry one light
• Others think that if you need a second mode beyond your gun fighting light then you should carry a second light
• Still others think that you can use allthelumens for administrative tasks too if you bounce/shield/deflect/cover your bezel the right way and therefore don’t need a second mode at all

You’re unlikely to change any of their opinions (including maybe your own?) but that’s how I see the thread shaking out so far and if you’re in camp 1 then you might only want to read posts by folks that are in your same camp.

[voodoo_man]

I have an emotional attachment to living, and will use the tools necessary to achieve that end. Sometimes the use of such tools evolve through experience in real world circumstances, sometimes they don't.

Having a single mode flashlight for real world use falls into the evolved experience category.

[JTQ]

Im not saying everyone, but a lot of people don't appear to be listening to each other.

Instead, the discussion, save a few posters, has devolved into "multi mode lights will get you "kilt in da streetz".

I had no idea people were this passionate about light selection and employment doctrine.

It was kind of apparent in your OP...

I literally CANNOT wrap my head around a single output handheld light.

I've asked people for use case explanations and no one has offered up anything compelling.

Can anyone offer me up a compelling reason as to why a single stage light is a useful tool? Who would want this? What is the application? How is it used?

Lucy 'Splain.

I think a compelling reason would be that one prefers a single output light. However, I don't think that may be compelling enough.

It's like a "give me a compelling reason why you wouldn't choose a Glock", or "give me a compelling reason why you wouldn't carry AIWB", or "give me a compelling reason why you wouldn't choose a 9mm semi-auto". Folks have all kind of reasons for choosing something different, but their reasons may not seem compelling to someone else.

If you're deep into any of those things, pretty much no answer will sound compelling to you because you believe you've thought through the process and made the correct decision and those that choose something else have not thought through the issue properly, because if they had, they would agree with you.

I appreciate the explanations from folks that pointed out some of my misconceptions about multi-output lights, but along the line of what Gio said, I have a bunch of lights and...

I like flashlights, but I don't go out and upgrade what I'm using every time a company comes out with a 100 lumen upgrade.

Some perspectives may be age related. If you started off using MagLites with an off/on button, a 65 lumen incandescent Surefire was an incredible advancement. If you started out using a 320 lumen LED, your light perspective may be different.

In addition, since this isn't specifically in the LE sub-forum, you're going to get different answers and reasons from LE and non-LE users.

[Borderland]

If you're deep into any of those things, pretty much no answer will sound compelling to you because you believe you've thought through the process and made the correct decision and those that choose something else have not thought through the issue properly, because if they had, they would agree with you.

It's obvious to me that I haven't thought through the issue properly.

I didn't realize a light was a life or death thing.

Well, maybe, if it were coming from an alien ship. Then it's probably too late anyway.