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Thread: LE uniforms dressing down ?

  1. #21
    I'm 14 years into the job, all in patrol with no plainclothes time. My first agency wore Blauer street gear as a daily uniform- military creases, but newish fabrics and cargo pockets on the pants. The last 9 years have been traditional wool pants and polyester shirts year round with clarino duty gear- never worn external vests for regular patrol. During that time the belt has gotten heavier with more gear- Taser, TQ, extra cuffs, etc... and it's begun to take a toll, to a point that my monthly chiro bill is the nearly the same as my 457 account contributions.

    I'm somewhat indifferent on polo/5.11 style pants vs. traditional appearing shirt/pants, but I am a big fan of modern fabrics and weight management for the duty gear. If chief for a day (and I've been on straight midnights for over half my career) I would likely go with traditional appearing uniforms using modern fabrics and some sort of load bearing external vest.

    All of those CSPD guys are unmistakably cops, but some look more squared away than others- and it has nothing to do with the uniform. This is an agency my command staff has a relationship with, and I think they do a great job with uniforms, allowing officers to choose either external LBV or traditional vest/belt. Not a huge beard guy, but some battles....
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by DpdG View Post
    All of those CSPD guys are unmistakably cops, but some look more squared away than others- and it has nothing to do with the uniform.
    I don't know anybody in that picture. It's a random picture I got off Facebook.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    I don't know anybody in that picture. It's a random picture I got off Facebook.
    Nor do I- I’m in the northeast, as is the agency I borrowed a picture from. Regarding CSPD (Colorado Springs I assume?) I was referring to the people projecting differing images based upon their posture, fitness, and perceived demeanor in the photo alone. Having said that, the meathead phenomenon can cause some false perceptions.
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  4. #24
    https://www.cji.edu/wp-content/uploa...ming_codes.pdf

    That's one of many papers/studies done on this particular topic.

    One of the biggest issues which I've seen in LE currently is the disconnect between the top brass (usually boomers or 25+years on the job) and the street officers.

    25 years ago, beards, visible tattoo's, wearing non-matching uniforms (like one officer having short sleeves when others have long sleeves) was not only forbidden but it was unprofessional. Today, that's mostly a very dogmatic way of looking at things. It's one of the easiest ways to kill morale on the job.

    We can be trusted to make split second, life and death, decisions with firearms, vehicles, other means of force but yet we aren't allowed to choose if we wear short or long sleeves at different times of the year? On what alternate reality does that make sense? This particular failed and broken logic tree keep going onto uniforms. There are PD's who still wear class-A's for their daily uniform. The same uniform all year around. It has gotten to a point where we just disregard the policy and as long as it "looks" like the uniform we are supposed to be wearing we wear whatever we want. Some guys put patches, badges, name tapes on North Face long sleeve sweaters and wear them instead of jackets or sweaters. Some have pants made in custom heavy wool material or extremely breathable cotton material, alternating them as needed for the temp. If we hold roll call in any division no two officers will be wearing the same uniform and the dogmatic policies are directly to blame for that.
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  5. #25
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    I’m a fan of class A uniforms and campaign hats for everyday patrol. No polo shirts or shorts. Just because it looks like class A does not mean it can’t be practical. The material has to stretch, gussets in the crotch, and shoulders. If you can’t climb a fence, run or fight in it it’s a no go. I hate the external vest. It just looks wrong and it shows where you are vulnerable. I really hated the clip on and Velcro ties. They only come in three sizes. Too long, too short and just right. I finally took a few long ones, cut them and added Velcro so they looked right. I never understood the tie for class A / patrol. I look unprofessional in the summer with no tie and short sleeves but as soon as I change to my winter uniform - Boom! Instant professional! As soon as they approved turtle necks and dickies for patrol I never wore a tie in uniform again. We wore campaign hats but switched to the bus driver hat when we got a new chief. The first time I wore it my four year old laughed at me and said it looked funny. I hated the short brim. It did not keep the sun out of your eyes or the rain off your glasses or off the back of your neck. I noticed a difference on traffics stops just from the change in hats. The patrol “Bat” belt needs to only carry what you need. Concealed suspenders are a must and would cut down on back issues. I added a go bag to my patrol gear. It had everything I needed; from snivel gear, Binos, water, jerky, ammo and tourniquets with dressings. I used a catalog brief case for non emergency stuff and paper work. Beards and tattoos ? Grow up and get real. Harden up. If your self esteem needs a beard or bad boy tats your thin is too skin. Life is about choices. You represent your Dept and society’s idea of law and order. If the public does not recognize you as a police officer ask yourself why. Use history and peoples expectations to your advantage.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Poconnor View Post
    ..snip

    Beards and tattoos ? Grow up and get real. Harden up. If your self esteem needs a beard or bad boy tats your thin is too skin. Life is about choices. You represent your Dept and society’s idea of law and order. If the public does not recognize you as a police officer ask yourself why. Use history and peoples expectations to your advantage.
    Guess that proves my point.

    In thirty years the conversation of beards and tattoos won't even be a thing it will just be accepted.

    Why didn't LE want beards? Paramilitary concepts, use of gas masks (may special assignments?) and that catch all "professionalism" term that means something different for everyone. You can be professional and have a beard and/or tattoos. There isn't a scientific study conducted that says otherwise.

    History has shown that a department MUST be reflective of it's citizens, which is why different PDs do different things throughout the US. When a PD is run like it's 1950 everyday for the last 70 years this is why we have the problems we have.
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  7. #27
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    Voodoo man; I agree with most of what you are saying. The best example I have is from when I only had a year on the job. We had police service aides that did paperwork and answered the phone. The PSA got sick and had to leave; her relief was on the way. My LT didn’t think I was capable of answering the phone for the twenty minutes. WTF? I can carry a gun and go to calls by myself but I can’t answer the phone? my point about tats and beards is this- my mother would not open the door to an officer with a beard. My father would not take an officer with tattoo sleeves seriously. They are elderly; just a little bit older than boomers. I get it. What is acceptable is different by generation and location. I agree with you feeling about the uniforms and dressing for the weather. I think a police officer can make up his own mind about how to dress for the weather. I remember a picture in the newspaper of four guys from my Dept. All had the same uniform on but different outwear. A leather jacket ( they were awesome to wear had a super presence) issued nylon field jacket, issued vest, and issued sweater. I always thought some of the police ideas of proper “military” things came from officers that did 4 years and got out of the military and now 25 years later made rank in the PD. There is an even bigger difference of military experiences that with PDs. My Dept had more than a few veterans but only a few were combat arms and even less saw combat.
    Last edited by Poconnor; 11-07-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  8. #28
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    We don't have to "match" unless there's a uniform of the day due to a funeral or the like where there's going to be a formation. Otherwise you can select your own sleeve length and if you want to wear Civil War or TDU uniforms, until you make LT, then you're stuck in Civil War. I prefer TDUs because I actually use my pockets. Spare rifle mag on one side, spare to my spare flashlight and a little blow-out kit in the other.

    Don't care about external vests one way or the other, but don't use one myself. I think some of our "huskier" officers look like a popped can of biscuits with one, though.

    Beards, meh, I can see it both ways. We can wear one about 1/4 of the year in exchange for charitable donations, which I think is retarded. Either it's a safety/professionalism issue or it isn't. It's not magically different for 3 months of the year because charity. I think someone with a religious or medical reason could get the blanket prohibit struck pretty easily if they wanted to.

    We've went back and forth on tattoos. Again, I see both arguments and I have tattoos (which a short sleeve uniform covers). Especially if you want to recruit veterans, you're going to cut the number of recruits quite a bit with a strict tattoo policy.

    I get it's a sliding scale and reasonable minds can differ on where to draw the line. I just draw it well short of polo/khaki for street officers and people investigating things that matter.
    Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.

  9. #29
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    The former chief at my previous department authorized units to decide what uniform to wear. As long as everyone on evening shift was in long sleeves, so be it. It didn't matter if you overlapped with a another team in short sleeves, you were golden. In theory, a shift could also opt for bicycle patrol shorts (even though we hadn't had a bike patrol in years), but fortunately no one tried that.

    This seemed reasonable, but what a pain in the cuff case it was to implement. Since this was a matter of comfort rather than performance, I left the decision up to vote of the shift. Inevitably, some people would wear short sleeves 365 if allowed. (You could wear a turtleneck, dickie, or really even a crew neck black or navy blue t-shirt, so hatred of ties didn't enter into it.) You'd also have people who were always cold no matter what. Of course, there were also people who wouldn't voice any opinion other than that they would go along with what everyone else wanted to do.

    Of course, the national capital region has widely varying temperatures. This resulted in multiple phone calls over days off as temperature and forecasts changed. On one occasion, I get ahold of people who had been on days off, but neglected to call those who had been working resulting in my being called by a major to remind me of this directive.

    Of course, my retirement job is stricter, mandating long sleeves and ties with the change in seasons. If only I were issued long sleeve uniform shirts or even a jacket or a tie.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Poconnor View Post
    Voodoo man; I agree with most of what you are saying. The best example I have is from when I only had a year on the job. We had police service aides that did paperwork and answered the phone. The PSA got sick and had to leave; her relief was on the way. My LT didn’t think I was capable of answering the phone for the twenty minutes. WTF? I can carry a gun and go to calls by myself but I can’t answer the phone? my point about tats and beards is this- my mother would not open the door to an officer with a beard. My father would not take an officer with tattoo sleeves seriously. They are elderly; just a little bit older than boomers. I get it. What is acceptable is different by generation and location. I agree with you feeling about the uniforms and dressing for the weather. I think a police officer can make up his own mind about how to dress for the weather. I remember a picture in the newspaper of four guys from my Dept. All had the same uniform on but different outwear. A leather jacket ( they were awesome to wear had a super presence) issued nylon field jacket, issued vest, and issued sweater. I always thought some of the police ideas of proper “military” things came from officers that did 4 years and got out of the military and now 25 years later made rank in the PD. There is an even bigger difference of military experiences that with PDs. My Dept had more than a few veterans but only a few were combat arms and even less saw combat.
    I get it, and as I said already it's a generational thing as it is a location thing. PDs need to age with the time and be as progressive about policing concepts as possible. Yes I know the word "progressive" isn't a good one but here it is completely applicable. LE is almost always 10 years (at a minimum) behind corporate concepts, standards and practices, this is really starting to show as the retention rates for PDs is the lowest it's been in a very long time. One of the main factors, in my opinion, is the lack of uniformity while demanding complete uniformity. Officers, regardless of how the general top brass feel about their competence, understand this intimately and they drive the PD. It doesn't matter what a top brass boss thinks, says or does, if a policy is bad or outdated it'll show in the morale of their respective PD. This has been proven consistently everywhere, yet bosses still subscribe to it's dogma foolishly.

    We are either making the officer's lives better or we are undoing a lot of hard work through crap policies that negatively effect the officers. There's no middle.
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