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Thread: LE uniforms dressing down ?

  1. #81
    Since I brought it up in my post and I see the word being used repeatedly I am genuinely curious. We have such a wide range in LE experience, so the answers may be interesting.

    Question:

    Explain how the term "professionalism" applies to a uniform and grooming.
    Last edited by voodoo_man; 11-11-2019 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  2. #82
    LE Forum Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo_man View Post
    Since I brought it up in my post and I see the word being used repeatedly I am genuinely curious. We have such a wide range in LE experience, so the answers may be interesting.

    Question:

    Explain how the term "professionalism" applies to a uniform and grooming.
    Multi-faceted, but primarily it sets you apart from the laymen and easily identifies you as a member of the given professional group/body. It connects you to the tradition of that professional body. It gains you the benefit of the doubt with the laity. You are no longer just an individual, you are a member of something much larger than yourself.

    There's no real reason a commercial pilot needs a uniform (and apparently cargo only flights often don't require it), but if you got to pick which otherwise identical plane you were going to fly on, would you honestly be at equal ease if you saw a guy in a tank top and cut off jeans in the cockpit of plane #1 vs a traditional pilot's uniform in plane #2? Just flip a coin because appearance don't matter and they're probably both fine? That sort of egalitarianism might exist in hypotheticals, but I think plane #2 is going to fill up a lot quicker.
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustOneGun View Post
    As for beards I understand in my old job it is allowed. I suspected either a court decision involving religion, for recruiting or both? We've forgotten that one of the main reasons for not wearing a beard is gas mask. Having the pleasure of attending two massive break and burn shit riots I wore the mask a few times each night. Perhaps they have a new mask that allows for beards?
    FWIW, I've worn an SCBA (as have numerous people from my organization) with a beard, and it didn't impact our seal in internal fire rescue exercises. These are standard NFPA(?) SCBAs used by fire departments, on the demand valve setting (not the free flow positive pressure setting). Our tactical team carries SCBAs for personnel recovery, and they literally all have beards....no issues. I know, any FF reading this right now is going to scream bloody murder as we all board the SS Jealousy on a voyage to "back in my day!", and that's literally the same thing that gets exclaimed yearly when our agency does this exercise with a very large, internationally respected FD...….Regardless, what it comes down to is no issues in actual use.

    There are masks that allow for beards better than others due to where it seals, and "average" beards don't interfere with it. Maybe your old work just has limits on how big the beard can be so that it doesn't interfere with where the seal is actually at.

    As long as you don't have a ZZ Top beard I think the idea that beards pose a danger to cops throwing CS grenades is a bit unrealistic.
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  4. #84
    Nope,

    The Avon mask which seems to be the hotness these days sucks ass when it comes to facial hair. You can feel the CS leaking around your beard hairs. :P
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  5. #85
    Member Trooper224's Avatar
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    Man, this thread devolved from a humorous back and forth, to what appears to be something akin to a highschool lunchroom dick measuring contest.

    Regarding beards: I had just enlisted when the Navy decided beards were no longer allowed. The reason, then as well as now, was related to the gas mask. In reality, I strongly suspected it was because there were far too many of the ZZ Top/Duck Dynasty types around and the Navy was trying to clean up its image of the drunken sailor. The gas mask issue was just the lipstick on that pig.
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  6. #86
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    FWIW when I worked for G4S the uniform was all black BDUs. Several of the client employees were seriously offended by them. They said we looked like the Gestapo. Which was odd because the Gestapo frequently did wear uniforms.
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  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Magsz View Post
    Nope,

    The Avon mask which seems to be the hotness these days sucks ass when it comes to facial hair. You can feel the CS leaking around your beard hairs. :P
    We use the Avon PC50. They don’t do well with facial hair.
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  8. #88
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    I saw a tv program on the History Channel about a Green Beret operation in Afghanistan. All had full beards. Was this an accurate portrayal? My opinion is that facial hair would complicate treating facial lacerations or wounds. These guys also were fighting insurgents in a large empty mud dwelling. To me that made no sense when a fighter bomber could have leveled it with one pass. Do their vehicles not carry anti tank weapons like the old LAWS. Why do it the hard way? Maybe I'm dense.
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  9. #89
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    @willie,

    Beards are extremely common among people working overseas in certain cultures, to include military SOF. They are quite normal to see at this point among SOF, even outside Muslim areas, due to the low visibility work that SOF perform and the need to not look like you're in the military. It does not severely complicate treating a facial laceration.....anything that it would complicate is something performed off the battlefield where a person can shave the needed area, just the same as the surgical team may shave your head or chest hair.

    As for the unrelated comment, 1) Air support is not always available, 2) Air strikes are not always approved (or asked for) due to nearby friendly/adjacent/civilians or the nature and goals of the mission.
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  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by BehindBlueI's View Post
    Multi-faceted, but primarily it sets you apart from the laymen and easily identifies you as a member of the given professional group/body. It connects you to the tradition of that professional body. It gains you the benefit of the doubt with the laity. You are no longer just an individual, you are a member of something much larger than yourself.

    There's no real reason a commercial pilot needs a uniform (and apparently cargo only flights often don't require it), but if you got to pick which otherwise identical plane you were going to fly on, would you honestly be at equal ease if you saw a guy in a tank top and cut off jeans in the cockpit of plane #1 vs a traditional pilot's uniform in plane #2? Just flip a coin because appearance don't matter and they're probably both fine? That sort of egalitarianism might exist in hypotheticals, but I think plane #2 is going to fill up a lot quicker.
    Although I suspect we might respectfully disagree to an extent on our “perfect world” uniform solution, I agree with most everything you posted, except the bolded above. I like traditional for honor/color guards- that’s where we honor our traditions and forbears.

    Professionalism with regard to the uniform is the competence and pride the wearer exhibits- is it easily identifiable, clean, fitted appropriately, and especially does the wearer look respectable in it for the regional/cultural norms? I believe a clean, well fitted uniform of most any common uniform design being discussed will look professional as long as the wearer a) is in reasonable physical shape (not saying CrossFit hero, just reasonable) and b) projects confidence in their stature and demeanor. I don’t think a specific, or especially old fashioned, style is necessary as long as it fits the above criteria.

    Having typed all that, I bet everyone has met the recruiting poster model who couldn’t think their way out of a wet paper sack.
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