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Thread: Vetting a proven pistol after optic install?

  1. #1

    Vetting a proven pistol after optic install?

    Say you have a carry gun that has passed your vetting process with defensive ammo, whatever number that might be. Now you have had it milled and installed an optic. Do you start the vetting process over again from zero, or do you run a lesser number of defensive rounds through it and call it good?

    Is your procedure different for a direct milled slide .vs an optics ready model where you just bolt it on?

    To be clear, I am not talking about proving the optic, just the reliability of the pistol after the optic install.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by cornstalker View Post
    Say you have a carry gun that has passed your vetting process with defensive ammo, whatever number that might be. Now you have had it milled and installed an optic. Do you start the vetting process over again from zero, or do you run a lesser number of defensive rounds through it and call it good?

    Is your procedure different for a direct milled slide .vs an optics ready model where you just bolt it on?

    To be clear, I am not talking about proving the optic, just the reliability of the pistol after the optic install.
    The session where I zero the optic with my carry/match ammo plus about 100 rounds of carry/match ammo for testing pistol reliability.

  3. #3
    ^^^^^^

    Assuming a quality optic cut from a reputable miller, this. Also, assumes it's a tried and true cut. The optics cut on my plastic CZ's are pretty straight forward, as are Glocks, M&P's, and many others. A quick zero and normal range session and I'm probably satisfied.

    On the other hand, it seems the H&K P30 cuts are a lot more complicated. The one's I've seen cut into the FPS spring hole, which I'm sure is fine, but I'd personally be inclined to do more extensive testing. My PX4c with a Langdon optics cut is going to see a thousand rounds before it gets carried. I certainly trust LTT, but I haven't seen very many reports of them out in the wild so it's getting a bit more testing.

    YMMV
    David S.

  4. #4
    I've had optics on close to a dozen pistols over the years. Never had a pistol that worked fine prior to installing the optic fail to work as well after the optic installation (even on a pistol as small as a P365). And this is both with direct milled and CORE/MOS installations. Hundreds of rounds through some, thousands through others.

    Could be that I've had all the milled installations done by a very experienced smith (Mark Housel at L&M)!

    I have had a mounting "failure" when I took the gun to the range before the Loctite securing the screws through the red dot into the pistol had time to properly set up, and the screws loosened. Cleaned and reinstalled, allowed proper setting of the Loctite, and red dot has stayed securely mounted since.

  5. #5

    Wink

    Over the years, I have had a number of pistols develop issues after mounting an optic. Just some examples that come to mind:

    Recently, a reliable 320 X Compact became a “one shot and malfunction pistol,” after a slightly too long optic mounting screw interfered with the spring that interfaced with the extractor.

    I have had an optic almost immediately come loose with the original CZ Custom multi optic installation on a Shadow 1.

    I had a CZ Custom aluminum plate strip with a DP Pro and allow the optic to wobble around.

    I have had a C-More optic plate quickly loosen on a Glock MOS slide.

    I have had various MOS plates come loose on Glock slides. Buddy had his RMR fly off and hit him in the head on a MOS.

    My wife had a Springer interface plate on an X5 get a stripped screw and cause the optic to loose zero.

    I had a reliable Gen 4 Glock become unreliable, due to the extra weight, when I added a T1 with the Unity plate. Was fine with a RMR, though.

    The Trijicon suppressor rear sight came loose on the pistol I shot at the Gunsite shoot early October this year.

    I have had the pin that holds the extractor in, that was modified during the optic install, migrate down and contact the frame on a VP9 direct mill, making the pistol stop working.

    I have multiple screws strip, preventing me from, for example, pulling one RMR that broke and another where the battery died.

    Buddy had a X5 develop reliability problems after installing a SRO, where the front lens was too far forward, allowing cases to lodge between the slide and optic.

    I am sure there have been more instances that I have forgotten. Some of the issues showed up immediately, and some took some thousands of rounds, so I don’t think there is a hard and fast rule. Murphy has a habit of rearing his ugly head at the least expected and convenient times.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  6. #6
    Gucci gear, Walmart skill Darth_Uno's Avatar
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    Recently, a reliable 320 X Compact became a “one shot and malfunction pistol,” after a slightly too long optic mounting screw interfered with the spring that interfaced with the extractor.
    I know I've seen that with Glocks a few times. That's not really a design flaw, just something to be aware of.

  7. #7
    This is why I love reading @GJM’s posts. He and his wife own so many firearms and actually shoot them substantially more than the average person that he a ton of experience to share.
    My posts only represent my personal opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of any employer, past or present. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

  8. #8
    Absolutely agree on the value of GJM’s posts and a few others here on PF; the thread on mounting a red dot was valuable to me(I’ll say it before someone else does-phrasing...)
    My experiences much more limited than many here; basically been running the GLOCK MOS on two Gen5s(G19&G45). No issues with guns, but a sight plate did come loose. I put that down to me not putting enough thread locker on screws
    and/or not degreased carefully. No issues after reinstall for 6 months.
    Here’s my current take, FWIW: on a factory system when you install plate and sight that’s two more potential failure points. So I check install(see if sight/plate wiggle), dot ON(?) before I load up to carry, or at weekly dry fire.
    The systems I’m currently running (GLOCK, ACRO and RMR) have positive reputations. I zeroed, shot Dot Torture(mainly for the one handed strings)and a dept.qual and, as said above, check weekly. New combo and/or custom cut, I’d probably shoot at least a few hundred rounds.

  9. #9
    On reflection, perhaps my lack of issues is because I wait for @GJM to torture test whatever pistol and/or optic I'm interested in!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by flyrodr View Post
    On reflection, perhaps my lack of issues is because I wait for @GJM to torture test whatever pistol and/or optic I'm interested in!
    There are a bunch of people shooting high round counts through optics, and I wish more of them would post in this sub forum, as the more information the better. The plural of anecdote may not be data, but with enough anecdotes, trends definitely emerge.

    We may have bad luck, but a handful of my friends and I have broken 50 plus red dots in the last few seasons shooting USPSA Carry Optics, although in fairness, a high percentage were one particular brand. Since red dots are a major topic of discussion between fellow CO shooters at USPSA matches, I also get information on red dot issues there. As I don’t tend to keep detailed notes on dot failures, I often use various threads in this sub forum to keep track of what I am seeing and hearing. I also learned a lot working with one major manufacturer to improve their product, although that also means I am now limited in what I can say about it. I have relatively little RMR experience, as while I own a number of them, I don’t get near the round count with that optic as the ones my wife, my friends and I shoot in USPSA.

    So take what I am reporting as suggestive but certainly not definitive, and try to get more people shooting high round counts to post in this sub forum. The flawless 100 or 150 round guys, or even those with a few thousand rounds on a pistol/optic combination are unlikely to see failures like the guys out there practicing regularly and competing with these optics, or the guys carrying them daily, exposed in duty holsters.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

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