IS Leader al-Baghdadi Killed in US Raid

[Joe in PNG]

I'm afraid this threw more fuel on the fire. I'm not saying hunting down an Islamist terrorist leader isn't a good idea but it accomplishes nothing in the general scheme of things. Islamist will figure out a way to strike back, you can bet your bottom dollar on that. There are probably some assholes right now in the US or Europe building a bomb to avenge the death of Baghdadi.

ISIS has been going full bore on telling their members and wannabe members they should get to killing people in the West as many as possible as soon as possible.

How is killing this dude going to make them any more desirous to kill people?

[LittleLebowski]

I'm afraid this threw more fuel on the fire. I'm not saying hunting down an Islamist terrorist leader isn't a good idea but it accomplishes nothing in the general scheme of things. Islamist will figure out a way to strike back, you can bet your bottom dollar on that. There are probably some assholes right now in the US or Europe building a bomb to avenge the death of Baghdadi.

More fuel on the fire? I can’t even attempt to parse your logic.

[41magfan]

The fundamental and foundational doctrines of Islam make allowance for only three outcomes; conversion, subjugation or annihilation. Pissing them off - or conversely attempting to appease them - will not change that one iota.

[RoyGBiv]

I'm afraid this threw more fuel on the fire. I'm not saying hunting down an Islamist terrorist leader isn't a good idea but it accomplishes nothing in the general scheme of things. Islamist will figure out a way to strike back, you can bet your bottom dollar on that. There are probably some assholes right now in the US or Europe building a bomb to avenge the death of Baghdadi.

̶H̶o̶p̶e̶ ̶f̶e̶a̶r̶ Being chill is not a plan.

[bravo7]

For those thinking it doesn’t matter, research who the operation was named after.

[BehindBlueI's]

Because that totally worked in Vietnam. Yeah, I know, if we'd just kept up the pressure, it would have worked eventually......

To quote "V for Vendetta," "ideas are bulletproof." Unless you kill them all, or so many that there is NO leadership, it doesn't do anything but slow things down temporarily.

The man killed isn't easily replaced in this instance. He was the "caliph" of the "caliphate" based primarily on his claimed bloodline as a connection to the prophet Mohammed and early caliphs. The truth of his bloodline is disputed, but his followers believed it. His death is damaging to many of the ideas that were the underpinning of the "Islamic State". His replacement needs to have some claim of blood, or at least tribe, that those followers will accept. Add in nationality issues and infighting, and this can likely lead to defections from various sub-groups. ISIS is likely to survive as an organization, but that's a big step down from the state they once were and the caliphate they claimed to be.

[11B10]

And then there is this.

Attachment 44082

Ya beat me to it - "austere religious scholar?" W.....T......F?

[Joe in PNG]

The man killed isn't easily replaced in this instance. He was the "caliph" of the "caliphate" based primarily on his claimed bloodline as a connection to the prophet Mohammed and early caliphs. The truth of his bloodline is disputed, but his followers believed it. His death is damaging to many of the ideas that were the underpinning of the "Islamic State". His replacement needs to have some claim of blood, or at least tribe, that those followers will accept. Add in nationality issues and infighting, and this can likely lead to defections from various sub-groups. ISIS is likely to survive as an organization, but that's a big step down from the state they once were and the caliphate they claimed to be.

I'm of the belief that personalities actually matter far more than ideals. For instance, Admiral Jack Fisher once noted that King Edward VII considered the merit of ideas based more on the person presenting them than the idea itself.

And again, when Hitler was seen as lucky and successful, people flocked to his bandwagon. And when he failed, they couldn't wait to pretend that they were never ever Nazis at all.

[Greg]

Because that totally worked in Vietnam. Yeah, I know, if we'd just kept up the pressure, it would have worked eventually......

To quote "V for Vendetta," "ideas are bulletproof." Unless you kill them all, or so many that there is NO leadership, it doesn't do anything but slow things down temporarily.

What insurgencies or revolutionary groups have been ended by a slow grinding down in the past 100 years? You break them NOW, or it never happens.

After Al-Qaeda fell in influence , we got ISIS, which actually managed to take territory, hold it for a time, and show a revolutionary Islamist state is quite feasable, and international co-operation on a massive scale was required to stop them (for now) and it took years.

I'm sure the counter-insurgency operations we are running in 70% of the countries on planet Earth will all slowly grind down all the threats we don't know about yet.

The United States: undefeatable in battle, unable to win a war since 1945. No, turning Iraq into a more chaotic, pro-Islamist state is not a victory. Nor was doing the same in Libya.

You turned the dumbfuckery to 11 on this one.

[HCM]

Because that totally worked in Vietnam. Yeah, I know, if we'd just kept up the pressure, it would have worked eventually......

To quote "V for Vendetta," "ideas are bulletproof." Unless you kill them all, or so many that there is NO leadership, it doesn't do anything but slow things down temporarily.

What insurgencies or revolutionary groups have been ended by a slow grinding down in the past 100 years? You break them NOW, or it never happens.

After Al-Qaeda fell in influence , we got ISIS, which actually managed to take territory, hold it for a time, and show a revolutionary Islamist state is quite feasable, and international co-operation on a massive scale was required to stop them (for now) and it took years.

I'm sure the counter-insurgency operations we are running in 70% of the countries on planet Earth will all slowly grind down all the threats we don't know about yet.

The United States: undefeatable in battle, unable to win a war since 1945. No, turning Iraq into a more chaotic, pro-Islamist state is not a victory. Nor was doing the same in Libya.

To equate this to Vietnam it would be the equivalent of killing Ho Chi Minh and general Giap simultaneously.Not to mention ISIS does not have two of the worlds largest industrial nations supporting it .

You are sprouting a bunch of irrelevant left wing party line horse shit.

Militant Islam has been in around since 700 A.D.. To them either you are a Muslim or an infidel to be killed or subjugated. There is no middle ground. You don’t reason with unreasonable people who want to kill you. You kill them first.

You profess to be a so-called liberal but fhis is exactly the kind of soft headed “America bad” foolishness that gives modern liberalism a bad name. You deride the use of force to eliminate a evil man who brought back - crucifixion, sexual slavery Genocide, and the use of the death penalty to enforce a religious code dating from the eighth century Encompassing crimes like women refusing to wear headscarves and homosexuals.



Add al-Baghdadi to the long list of those who can no longer argue that violence never settle anything